Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.

Starlady - they have gone through counselling in the past but there is a long list of subjects which she refuses to discuss - one of them being contact with our side of the family.

I`m not going to say any more about it now - let`s move on to what everybody else has been up to recently

xx

Congratulations, eddiecat, on your dd's wedding! Glad that it went well! I hope she enjoyed every bit of her day (well, her and her groom's day) and that it wasn't marred for her by the absence of ds' kids.

I'm glad ds saw his way clear to come and that he and dd were enjoying each other's company. I know it must have warmed your heart to see that. I'm sorry his kids couldn't come and that this saddened him a bit. I'm also sorry to that dil wouldn't let gd attend even though the child very much wanted to.

Idk but I suspect it will matter to dil if the day comes when the kids confront her about why she kept them away from their dad's side of the family. Maybe they will accept her answers and maybe they won't. She may be in for a major conflict with them over this. Obviously, she's not worried about it now, but I don't envy her that day.

It sounds as if ds is pulling away, and, somehow, I imagine, he'll find a way to leave. He may want to wait until the kids are old enough to visit him without her say-so. And, of course, as you tell us, there's the financial angle. I'm sorry he's feeling "stuck," poor guy.

Has he thought of marriage counseling? Maybe that would help them sort out their differences on this and help them avoid a divorce? Just asking...

Celeb - yes son`s wife doesn`t want contact with us and will only agree to us having very limited contact with the children. She will occasionally agree to us meeting up but usually comes up with a reason why we can`t at the last minute. She and the children were invited to the wedding but she refused. DS did come which was wonderful. In the past he would have stayed away to keep her happy but he is past caring now - it just makes him very sad that the children can`t see us or the rest of his family. At the moment he cannot afford to carry on supporting the children and live somewhere else himself, so he is stuck lving with her in an increasingly miserable environment - and this is why I need to rob a bank!

Eddiecat I am sorry man very confused is it your sons partner who is stopping contact with rest family for their chidlren?

If so that's sad, but your son still went to his sisters wedding!.? If so thats good.
Sorry I am confused ??.

Yes I'm OK thanks Sparkly. Mr. S. and I are settling back down again. DS and lovely d.i.l. have arrived back in Aus. It's going to be a tough time for them both as the poor girl comes to terms with the loss of her father; they were very close. She's such a long way away from her family but has good friends over there and of course they have each other.

I must be braver than I realised what with my choice of perfume and shoes.

Mawbroon yes that's a thought, my grandmother used a lot of bleach and cleaning stuffs in her spotless home and had 2 dogs when she used perfume on them....goodness know what her dogs made of the home environment, maybe they got used to it, familiarity doing that. They were always laid happily in front of the fire..

eddiecat it might be awful for your DS too, DiL controling behaviour over the DGC - he might know she would cut him out if he left her?

Smileless hope you are ok and Poison, very brave to wear it, it would give me a headache. To each their own - I prefer citrussy scents, especially with grapefruit or orange blossom highlights.

"That wont matter"!! Well it just might matter to her children eddie when they grow up and learn that they had a much larger family than they realised and missed out on so much. I'm sure you're right and it's all about controlling your DS and her children too of course.

I think he rather likes it Mawbroomhe's been walking a little taller since Friday which isn't a bad thing as he's really rather small. It isn't by any means an overpowering scent. His groomer is a lovely lady and she wouldn't use or sell anything that could be detrimental to her clients.

Like the cartoon. We had a lab cross years ago who loved rolling in fox poo; I can still remember the awful smell. I like Poison, it's one of my favourites; only to be worn in the evening and applied sparingly of course.

thanks Smileless - I do hope we`ll be able to take some of your lovely shoes into prison with us!

Apparently DS asked his wife what she would say to the children if they ask questions in the future - she just told him that won`t matter because she believes she is making the right decision for them at the moment! To be honest I think that now it is not just about stopping us seeing them - it is more about trying to control what DS does

Oh dear smileless and sparklygrandma I suspect dogs do NOT appreciate what we humans would regard as a nice perfume ??
Seriously, given that their sense of smell is so much more acute than ours, I wonder what it would smell like to the dog (maybe how that awful Dior "Poison" at close quarters would be to us)
A dog's duty is to get as smelly and dirty as it can at the first opportunity

No problem eddie just let me know when you'll need your alibi for. If we both get caught we might be lucky enough to share a cell.

I'm so pleased the wedding went welland that your DS and DD were happy and relaxed in one another's company; that must have been heart warming for you to see. What a shame that your GD wasn't allowed to attend when she really wanted to be there.

I don't think some of these parents realise the trouble they're storing up for themselves. What ever reason your d.i.l. gave she'll have been upset especially knowing that her dad was going anyway. The truth always comes out in the end, no matter how long it takes and when our GC grow up they'll more than likely be able 'to sort the wheat from the chaff', distinguish the lies from the truth. I wonder what their parent(s) will say to them then.

Well we had DD`s wedding and it went well. DS did get upset because other children were there and he hadn`t been able to bring his. We were sad to hear that his daughter had really wanted to come but been told by DIL that she couldn`t - I dread to think what reason she gave.
The nicest thing for us was seeing DS and DD getting on so well, as for a long time their relationship was very strained as DIL didn`t want DS to have contact with his sister - it was wonderful to see them back to normal.
DS is well and truly stuck living with her unless I can rob a bank to finance alternative accommodation for him - so Ladies I shall be needing you to provide an alibi for me!

Smileless2012

Scent for dogs is a good idea, especially when they are 'indoor' dogs; my gran a great dog lover used to use cheap perfume on her dogs, giving them once a day a quick squirt of perf as they walked past her on her chair.

Excellent idea.

eddiecat I yawn too, no its not moved on!

celebgran I hope you feel more comfortable this coming week

Of course I don't mind Starladygood advice is always welcome.

Two lovely posts Celeb.

Well on a brighter note I had my little dog groomed on Friday. I've nothing but admiration for the lady who transforms him from a bit of a scruff, even though I do my best by brushing him at least once a week, to a handsome little boy.

When I went to collect him she asked me if I wanted her to spray him, and when I asked her 'what with' she told me you can get scented sprays for dogs. I sniffed half a dozen different scents and went for Blue Lagoon which is so lovely I bought the bottle; only 10 pounds. That was the look on Mr. S.'s face when I showed him what I'd bought and told him how much it cost. He's worth it and I'm very impressed at how long the scent lasts as he hasn't had a respray and still smells of Blue Lagoon.

Nogranhere, want to add this to my earlier post to you (but can't because no edit button here, darn!)...

Some people don't know why their ac cut them out and others say they don't know because maybe they don't want to face what they did wrong or don't want to correct it (NOT saying that about anybody here). For example, one of my friends who is co is very warm and generous - but also very bossy. Her ds and dil asked her many times to stop trying to control their lives, but she wouldn't back off. Now she's co and saying, "Idk why!"

But in your case, imo, it's obvious that you really don't know. Not that I would doubt you, but it's clear because, based on what you've told us, dd seems very conflicted. This is on her, imo, not you. Unfortunately, that means there's not much you can do that I can see until she figures out what she needs from you.

Good grief - I`ve been away for a couple of days and we don`t seem to have moved on at all! (Yawn)

Smileless, I realize you didn't ask for advice, so I hope you don't mind that I gave some. Obviously, you don't have to take it.

You say you are going to talk with ds about this though, so I hope that goes well.

Nogranhere I am sitting quietly as morning are time I feel most ill and have belatedly read through your post,

I do empathasise as I know my daughter felt I didn't fit into her perfect world after. marrisge and baby, I wasn't good enough but it's impossible to understand what I did that was so bad however I find it too upsetting rehashing it all, and only hope you can avoid being cut off forever like I have been,

I think fairydoll said so much soul searching I spent years apologising and asking what I could do to try and heal the rift but absolutely everything was ignored,

Therefore I do know what you mean it's hard to understand how a close bond with a daughter can be cut off totally but it has in our case.

Nogranhere it's awful that no one welcomed younor tried to help and please understand that isn't usual on this thread.

If you prefer not to post again that's fine.

If not I hope some of us will do our best to help,

It's not easy in my life at moment severe health issues and Smilelss also has had family problems.

However we definitely will try to at least listen apologies for your post being lost In the argy Barry of last few days.

Pemstemmon I am sorry ifmyoumfelt any suport offered was not appreciated that was t my intention.

I am extremely unwell at moment and really don't need anymore aggravation,

It's awful that New poster was not offered any suport and apologise for that notagra

Regular posters do try and help everyone

You can't give up with the "advice" though Starlady can you?

Another idea Smileless and Mr S would be to have a back up plan for every day DS and DIL say they are going to see you... etc

Every day ?
Micro-managing or what? Have they ASKED for advice?

#giveitarest

I agree with Jalima1108, not clear why Smileless would stir up planning complaints. If I were Smileless, I'd leave well enough alone and accept ds as different to me. I think that is what she has indicated to do.

Ok, one more comment on this issue and then I'm done with it... Jaima, I get what you're saying. But, as Iv said, I trust Smilieless to know enough not to tell ds and dil what to do. She does have a right, imo, to ask them to make more definite plans with her and Mr. S in the future, so that they can plan their time.

Another idea, Smileless, would be for you and Mr.S to have a backup plan for every day that ds and dil say they're going to see you - like going to the cinema or even just out to lunch. If they go through with one visit, then you would save the backup plan in case they flake on the next one, etc. Idk if that would lessen the disappointment, but it might make it easier to take. Idk. Just a thought.

Lol! I'm NOT telling Smileless' ds and dil what to do, Maw! How could I? It's not like I'm going to get to talk to them about this. Nor would I if I could. So no, NOT interfering. I'm just expressing an opinion here

but you are expressing an opinion to Smileless about what you think her family should be doing if we wish to be pedantic about this.
Therefore planting seeds in the mind of someone who is upset - which, if acted upon, could cause friction.

Lol! I'm NOT telling Smileless' ds and dil what to do, Maw! How could I? It's not like I'm going to get to talk to them about this. Nor would I if I could. So no, NOT interfering. I'm just expressing an opinion here.

I usually like your posts, Maw. But here I feel as if you're just arguing to argue. Maybe not, but it feels that way.

Sure ds and dil are "mature enough to make their own decisions, etc." But then, I assume they're mature enough not to confuse people, take them for granted, and change plans on them as if their time doesn't matter.

Tbf, it's not just this ds and dil who do that. My own dd sometimes seems to assume that I have nothing else to do but wait and see if she wants/needs me. I suspect a lot of ac are like that. So if they change plans last minute, perhaps they don't think it's such a big deal - it's not like their parents could have been doing anything else - or so some of them seem to think, lol! Hate to admit it, but I'm sure I had the same attitude about my parents' time when I was young.

In fact... but wait... I think I hit a nerve with some of you ladies... Maybe Smileless' ds and dil aren't the only ones who don't plan and who change things on people last minute?... Ok... I think I'll let this part of the conversation go...

Hi nogran, sorry your post was largely ignored. I read it earlier and almost responded by suggesting you start a separate thread, maybe under relationships. This thread, as you have seen, can be a difficult place for posters who aren't seen as supportive to the main group iPod regular posters.
I enjoy mumsnet as you do. I hope you don't feel like running !