Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.

Sometime we do just have to accept that our ACs may actually prefer to spend time with their own friends than their "aged parents"! I am sure my DDs do on several occasions! And quite right too! It can be disappointing but there are also times when I want to be with my friends rather than family.

Oh, maybe you think I'm suggesting that ds wanted to see his parents Easter weekend but dil wanted to see their friends. Not necessarily. It could just as easily have been that dil felt they should give that time to Smileless and Mr.S. and ds wanted to work in some time with friends (since they were spending other days with his parents).

Or they may both have been conflicted, wanting to spend time with the Smilelesses but wanting to see friends they haven't seen in a long time, as well. No matter what, they need to sort it out beforehand. Simple and complicated as that.

KateK

Regarding my comment re 'vultures' which you raised further back in the thread.

If I say...'My friend is like a dog with a bone', i.e worrying about something incessantly, I am not calling HER a dog.

Thus, if I post that I can feel the vultures circling - I'm drawing a parallel NOT referring to you, or anyone else as a vulture per se.

Not at all, Jayanna. Just saying what might be causing the apparent "flakiness." IF ds and dil aren't on the same page before they tell Smileless and her dh when they'll see them, then there are almost bound to be problems. (They may have even each promised different people different things without knowing what each other said. It happens.) IF that's what's going on, they need to sort it out beforehand. What's wrong with saying that?

I'm NOT suggesting that Smileless say that to them exactly, and I'm sure she would be wise enough not to. She doesn't know if that's what's going on. But if she asks ds to make sure the plans are set before he tells them to her, maybe he'll be wise enough to think of that, himself - again IF that's the problem. IF there's some other issue causing the frequent changes, then, of course, hopefully, he'll deal with that

People don't listen because it's all been said before, ad nauseum. All rehashed so-called different perspectives.

Many ladies have been posting on here for years and have done enough self-reflection, introspection, naval gazing, pleading and begging to last a lifetime.
They come together to SUPPORT each other, and what's the harm in that?
Often (not always) the so-called advice is veiled criticism.
I have seen posters in pain having to justify their situation, explain how the estrangemenit occurred and the agony they've been through in order to attempt to reconcile with loved ones.

I have seen ladies on this thread actually blamed for their estrangement, simply because they have rejected 'advice.' from posters who have absolutely no idea what estrangement feels like.

There is no 'one size fits all' where estrangement is concerned. There are a myriad of reasons and a myriad of personalities involved.

I remember, a few months ago, a poster who was clearly estranged at her own behest submitted really nasty, attacking posts under the guise of advice. After having her knuckles rapped by GNHQ, she changed her name and returned yet again to disrupt the thread. Is it any surprise then, that regulars on here have become super-sensitive to advice? I think if they wanted it they would Ask A Gran.

This is not a thread asking for advice it is, as the title suggests, a SUPPORT thread and that, KateK is why ,perhaps, 'advice' is not listened to.

Who says it is a problem, Starlady?
And as for what Smileless's DS and DIL "need to do", well that is their business, isn't it?
Many of us are deeply disappointed when our AC choose to prioritise their friends over us (happens to us all but maybe not to this degree, with very different circumstances) e.g. DD has an old school friend who lives about 10 miles from us and I admit it niggles (OK hurts) when I find she has been doing something with her, but not been to see us, but ''twas ever thus"
From the distance of the other side of the world and a very flying visit it would much much worse.
Let's not interfere in other people's relationships?

Trying to stir up bad feeling towards DIL, Starlady?

Smileless, I don't think anything in your earlier posts suggested that you and Mr. S. expected to be ds' priority. Imo, you were very clear that you were disappointed because he and dil kept changing their plans. Glad you're going to talk to ds before his next visit. He and and dil need to plan their schedule beforehand and stick to their plans.

Maybe sometimes they disagree on how much time they want to spend where and that's part of the issue? But, imo, that's their problem - it shouldn't affect you and Mr.S. They need to work it out between them before saying anything to you. Just my thoughts.

In your dreams mcem it won't be the first time there has been a request for specific comments and it won't be the last time it is fruitless.
If celeb or anybody were to be specific it might show up the fact that the "unpleasantness" of the remarks was in someone's imagination or (mis) interpretation.

Smileless it wasn't what YOU posted but the tone of the posts that followed that set me worrying in case your DIL saw or was told about them. I am so glad you felt able to post again and make your feelings clear. All power to your very positive attitude!

Interested to see joannab's post.

I wonder if it would help any of us if you'd point out specific remarks that you find nasty and unpleasant when I honestly can't work this out! Or is it simply a case of telling anyone not in your position to clear off completely and leave you strictly alone?

Luckylegs good see you post and was so enjoyable having chat earlier,

Smilless we did all understand and can't for life of me see the need for certain people stir up trouble, relief to see you post as stupidly lost your phone no and was getting worried,

Life too complicated and difficult for that,(causing trouble and downright nastiness) for me anyway.

I started this thread and it will continue with our normal suport empathasising suport as admin point out That is the purpose
Oranelemon please don't be put there are far more supportive posters than non supportive,

I'm sorry that my last post has been the cause of unpleasantness on this thread; TBH I've found it rather upsetting as I've read through the last 5 pages. My heartfelt thanks to all of you who have given me both your support and understanding.

There are a couple of things I'd like to make clear. Mr. S. and I didn't have any expectations with regard to seeing our DS due to the tragic reason for their unplanned return to the UK. We were told that they would be spending more time with us than they actually did and that naturally resulted in our disappointment. I thought I'd made that clear in my previous post. Neither of us expected to be our son's priority at such a difficult time; we are not that self centered.

When arrangements were changed, for example Easter weekend, it was not due to our dear d.i.l. spending time with her family, which we would of course have understood, but due to arrangements being made to see friends. We appreciate their desire to see their friends and as one poster stated, that isn't as issue if we go to stay with them because we only have them to spend time with.

Mr. S. and I are very aware of our over sensitivity due to our estrangement with our other son and go to great lengths to ensure that we don't pass that on to our DS and his wife. Our DS is loved for himself, he is not expected to compensate for the loss of his brother whose loss can never be compensated for but understandably our time with him is very precious to us.

We will talk to our DS before they come back at Christmas NOT because we want to be his priority, but because we hope to avoid being upset and disappointed that the amount of time he says will be spent with us doesn't materialise; that was the problem, not how much we saw of him but it wasn't as much as he'd led us to believe.

I am an EP/EGP and haven't found any of the "alternative view" posters contributing to this topic nasty or judgemental ? Please correct me if I am wrong "alternative posters" but I see it that you do empathise with those estranged from family members ?

"Hasn't it all be said before? It's nothing new."

"So why is nobody listening?"

Maybe our suggestions aren't helpful? Or maybe some people just want to cling to their own view? Or maybe some do listen to some of it but not all?

I'm amazed that objective suggestions pointing out research which might prove helpful are being branded as nasty and unpleasant. Am reluctantly reaching the conclusion that the research might throw up recommendations which would be unwelcome by being critical of parents as well as estranged adult children.
If I found myself in this position I'd be reaching out for any straw that might be useful.

Ok, jainesworth, sorry I misunderstood.

Meanwhile, Iv been thinking... Iv looked at a few threads on Mumsnet and I see where posters there complain about their parents or pils just as some gps here complain about their ac or cil. Does anyone go into MN threads and warn people to be careful of what they saw because someone might be doing research? Or is it just an effort to "scare" us "old ladies?" Idk, just asking.

"NOW that's unpleasant"

No luckykegs9 NOT unpleasant posters. Other grans with their own troubles or joys whose life experience is unlikely to have been a bed of roses. Expressing an opinion in a polite and respectful manner, not making a judgement.
The unpleasantness has been from people comparing their legitimate input with "vultures circling overhead".
"Vultures" not that's unpleasant.

what KateK said.

So why is nobody listening?

Yep, when posters on here show their vulnerability you can put money on it that the same people will fly in with 'helpful advice' or ' another way of looking at things.'

Hasn't it all be said before? It's nothing new.

Hmm....

Yes, luckylegs9...puts me off completely

Once again, some very unpleasant posters.