The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

Damned lost my post!

Just to say well done 123flump sounds like you and husband tried so hard!

Unlike mynestrsnfed daughter didn't give a damn when her dad told her about my impending surgery major spinal op half mile from her home.? No response.

Oops maybe didn't lose it after all.

Oh dear funny how these posts hide and fool us. I hope your daughter gets in touch.

All cases are going to be different but what worked with my husband was if she didn't get in touch and didn't talk to other people about it, however much she thought they wouldn't they would feed it back and it would just keep him wound up. Even if people mean well, and I don't think they all did, someone phoning a grown man and telling him why they think he is in the wrong isn't going to calm things down. I don't know if that would work for other people but it would for him. I would say to her to leave it alone, picking a scab won't help it heal and eventually she would listen, he would mellow and we would have a calm period but inevitably she would say something nasty, pick on our son about nothing and try to turn the children against each other and the whole sorry saga would start again.

I suppose what helped in our case was I kept the contact going, not all ILs are going to do that. Not saying I'm wonderful or anything but it is just how it was. My big fear was that something would happen to her when they were estranged because I knew that would be hard for him to live with. As it was they were friends at the end. She was a sad bitter woman and I don't think she could help herself.

Celeb I bet your daughter did care about you op... it's extremely difficult to turn off feelings for a parent - I imagine she agonized over it. But for whatever reason she felt unable to get in touch. Hopefully one day that'll change.

Oh thanks bugsby and flump 123 I do hope so one day.
Been so long tho.

Life goes on and this will be 8 th Xmas without her,
At least we have our son and his partner is v kind to us and supportive they cam to usmoe Xmas but apart from that she cooked us Xmas dinner for several years it s lovely of her,

We have try accept what we can't change.
Focus on those that do care
Hard this time of year for all of us missing someone?

Smileless2012, "Yes Luckylegs exactly. A 'phone call or text to ask if someone's OK is hardly prying is it."

I took it to what you said es did contact once to ask, no? Once is not prying, but more may seem so, no?

Admittedly I haven't read all of these posts coming to it at the end but it has opened my eyes slightly to the effects my own DIL's mother may be suffering from her NC with my granddaughters for the last 20 years. Having only seen the issues from my son and his wife's side I do now wonder how her mother has coped - I do know she did some awful things and I also know what caused the initial fallout and understood entirely that my son & DIL cut her out of their lives to save their marriage and sanity. Back then there was no such things as forums and blogs about NC so this is all new. It's very sad - this woman missed the chance to see her precious granddaughters grow up - she has other grandchildren but her son also cut her out of his life so she no longer sees his children either. I guess there are always two sides to every story and sad though it is sometimes going NC is necessary.

If someone you love is going through a difficult time, sending a message or making a 'phone call to say you're thinking about them and asking if they're OK isn't IMO prying Norah

It's showing that you care.

Yes, that is very sad Willow.

Smileless, Did he never call? I thought you said he did call. Maybe he thought once was enough? Not dredge up? Since you don't get along it's normal to see a slight. Maybe if you ignored his actions you might feel better?

Letting someone you love know that you're thinking about them isn't dredging anything up Norah it's simply showing that you care.

Our ES has refused to have anything to do with us for more than 5 years so I think to say we 'don't get along' is an understatement. Ignoring his apparent lack of concern for his brother which has upset his brother, isn't going to make me 'feel better', anymore than it will make our DS feel better.

Smileless, Sorry my approach is wrong to you, only correct to mine. Have a Happy Christmas!

Hard for Smileless to "ignore" something if ds is venting to her. Norah!

But Smileless, I hope you don't dwell on it too much. Ds may have to rethink his relationship with es, maybe accept the fact that, sadly, es isn't someone he can count on. Idk. He'll have to figure that out for himself.

Es is disappointing in more ways than one, I suppose. I'm so sorry!

Thank you Starlady, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that ES will be there for his brother. They spent the day together yesterday so hopefully they had the opportunity to talk.

'Happy Christmas' to you too Norah and to all.

I hope all you lovely ladies have had at least a Christmas with some peace, if nothing more. I had asked my EDD for some examples of what I had done to her as a child/teenager that made her feel the way she did about me and why she felt she had had to have practically no contact whatsoever. I did get an answer, and what a bashing I got. Some things were absolutely untrue, some things I honestly couldn’t even remotely remember or even think where they came from, some things had been viewed by an immature person or by her not knowing all the facts and some things she was correct about. A lot had been misinterpreted also. I thought of her words before and over Christmas. She had also made it clear that no further discussion of these events was permitted. I so felt that I had been charged, put on trial and found guilty without being able to say a word in my defence. This is where I need advice from people who have walked this same path. I don’t know if she had children and I think she is with a new boyfriend, not the former sbudive one. I thought trying to defend/explain myself would only result in her cutting off contact again. This second email didn’t sound quite as scripted as her first. However, it still blew a hole through my heart. However, I am desperately trying to work out how she must have felt/ how she feels. I’m not sure “apportioning” or explaining blame is the way forward. I want my daughter back and will do whatever it takes. That’s part of my problem, what does it take, if she won’t talk about things and how do I even go about trying to sort the mess out. She appears to think I have suffered from depression or other things myself. All I thought to do was reply to her and say I would respect her conditions about when to contact her and how I should word responses. I also thought that she genuinely believed I was guilty of all the things she listed. I didn’t deny anything, even though some weee grossly untrue, as I explained before. I just kept thinking that we must be looking at some situations differently, so that would make neither of us right or wrong. I also agreed with some of the things she’d mentioned. I also wrote in my very brief reply, that I was truly sorry for the hurt she felt/feels and for that I apologised. I don’t know if I’ve gone about this the “right” way or not, if you get my meaning. I just didn’t think arguing about this not happening or that being in your imagination or this being said/done a certain way because.......I didn’t mention specific incidents as being true as again, I just felt everything she said was of equal importance to her and just acknowledging those true bits was not going to be helpful to the situation. I felt as though she was in a better place herself and at the very end of her letter, she seemed less cold. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but despite her limits and restrictions, I felt that perhaps there was a bit of hope that we could, possibly, have a little bit of contact via messages, although limited to general, light subjects. Nothing deeper or opening up as it were. More like chat about the weather or a new dress but not how you feel. I’m still all mixed up and my head is like a washing machine. I really really don’t know where to go or what to say from here. Sites I’ve looked at seem to cater more for adult children that have suffered physical or sexual abuse or for those that were deprived etc. I’m not even sure where our situation would fit in. It’s either things I’ve said or things she feels I’ve neglected to attend to etc etc. I know I am not blameless but I know I’m not completely guilty either. I hope some of you wise ladies can share some good advice or point me in the right direction. I looked at another thread suggested by another poster, but I think they were dealing with some things between themselves hence my return to this thread. Thank you if anyone has managed to read to the end of my rambling post. I never in my wildest dreams thought my little family would be so broken and messed up. I feel such an absolute failure as a mum and it truly breaks my heart when I see all the mums and daughters doing all those things I so long to do with mine. I truly hope all those missing their sons and daughters find reconciliation and peace. X

MesMopTop. It would seem you have tried everything. You cannot alter the past. You have asked forgiveness for all the things you did that could have upset her. If she doesn't want to talk about issues that trouble her, what can you do but leave the door open, saying you will always be there for there her, you will always miss her, then make a good life for yourself. I would send cards and presents for birthdays and Christmas, enclose a short chatty letter and see how it goes. I know from experience how it hurts.

Morning MesMopTop
Merry Christmas, I hope you had a good day yesterday.
Yes I got to the end of your post and I hope you feel better to have unloaded on here, it certainly helps me to do so. If you have your estD postal add. perhaps you could answer all her accusations against you, post it to her, but first warn her you are sending it, so she knows what the letter is, then she has it to keep & open when she feels she can. Of course you could do the same with an email, with a warning email first, but a sealed letter would be better I think.
It would do your estD good to read it and see things from your side, read the things she thought happened, but didn't, and explain about why the things that did happen, happened. I'm sure we have all had something happened to us and we think we know the reason why, only to be told a part of the story we knew nothing of, which completely changed the way we viewed it.

My ND has often said to me that she would love us [me, estD & herself] to sit round a table and talk things out, which I would most definitely be up for. My ND told me about my estD saying to her; she remembers she was sitting at the top of the stairs listening to a conversation between me & her stepdad, and my saying that he came before the children, I said "What!" no way on this earth would I ever have said that, and he would know the opposite to be the truth. So where she got that from I've no idea So one big thing I could correct my estD on.

MesMopTop, your comment that you aren't sure apportioning blame is the right way forward sounds spot on to me. You seem to have tried everything to improve or repair things. It may be that isn't possible, which is something some estranged parents have to accept. I don't see that 'correcting' distorted or imagined memories can improve anything. Creating some emotional distance and being kind to yourself may.

MesMopTop my husband was estranged from his mother one several occasions, they had a difficult relationships and remembered his childhood very differently. I have to disagree with Yogagirl about writing with your view of things as in my experience it won't help and in fact only adds fuel to the fire. I know in my husband's case being told he was wrong only made him feel even more disrespected by his mother.

As I said my experience is limited and I am sure all situations will vary so you are likely to get lots of different views.

I think you have responded in the right way, you have acknowledged her pain, you accept that you got some things wrong and just show me the mother who hasn't got some of it wrong and I will be truly amazed. I encouraged my MIL to take this approach, more than once, and it would result in them being in contact again. It took more than one attempt to have a more lasting peace and I have to admit the relationship was never easy but it was a relationship.

I'm new here so I don't know if you have posted other details but I think you are right to be hopeful that you can have some contact. I hope 2018 will be a good year for you.

I also think you've taken the right approach, MMT. Though I'm not estranged, I have some friends who are, and I know that arguing with their eac's accusations backfired for the 2 that tried it. Just ended up in more anger and abusive replies from their eac.

So I agree that this shouldn't be about who's "right" or "wrong" in their memory or perception of events, etc. In fact, I imagine that's why she doesn't want any further discussion. I don't think she's trying to silence you for it's own sake. Imo, she wants you to think about her perspective and not try to diminish or brush off her feelings.

Imo, it's more about understanding how your edd feels, showing some sympathy for that (as you have) and showing respect for her current boundaries (as you're also doing), even if they mean not defending yourself right now. After a while, if things go well, maybe you two will be able to have a deeper discussion. But not yet, I don't think.

For now, I think you've done all you could do. You sent her an apology - now the ball is in your court. Like pps, I think you'll be able to resume a relationship in the year ahead. It might start slowly, it might only be on a superficial level for a long time, but it will be a start. I certainly hope so!

You're welcome, Smileless!

I'm glad that ds and es got to spend some time together - it's good, imo, that es hasn't co his whole family like some others we read about. I know it must have been a little frustrating for you and Mr.S to know that ds would see es and your gc while you can't. But perhaps ds got something significant out of the visit that he can share with you.

I'd say definitely do not write a letter giving your side, MopTop.
Even if your DD were to destroy it without looking at it, she would be left with the impression that you want to rehash things and that this might still crop up in the future.

I think you've done things exactly right.
The important thing isn't who was "right" or not but how your DD feels and how she wants to go forward now.

You said I want my daughter back and will do whatever it takes.
Hang on to that.

I agree with FarNorth and 123flump. No point in trying to change how ac believe. All ac are inherently raised different to their sisters or brothers. They see through their own memory. Most need a moratorium to parents views to their childhood. There is no harm in suspension of tensions. Once gc are to age they will contact gp and collect "memory boxes".

Norah we can't know that but would presume estranged grandkids will be curious

No letters, miss you cards (wrote in abundance first year)
Heartfelt pleas apologies gifts letters etc etc please for her to mediate from us, the police (who they involved ) made scrap of difference like we are dead to her. Nearly 9 years of deafening silence.
Guess others are right apologise for any upset and hope and pray it doesn't last for ever.
Our dear son just given us most amazing Xmas how could I have got it so wrong with my daughter I love and cared for her so much.

Celeb, glad you had a lovely Christmas with your son. I send cards to my d and family, otherwise the balls in her court, I told her I love her and will be here if she ever wants to have a relationship, which she doesn't. I can do no more.

Just found these two gems of advice on Mumsnet!

“You know you don't have to "go NC" don't you? Just cut him out for a bit and see how you feel. Be too busy for calls or texts and just ignore. If you find that you are happy with it then extend the status to permanent. If you're not find a new course”

“You can go NC without actually making that final cut. No need to tell him. Just ignore his calls if he calls. That way it also leaves the door open for you if you did change your mind”

The level of audacious, self entitlement of so many in that generation (20s & 30s) is stunning ? after nearly 10 years, in the absence of a heartfelt apology showing real insight (which would never happen)! my son would have a hell of a shock if he just ‘changed his mind’ about going NC with me having not having “made the final cut or told me, just ignored calls” etc ? Isn’t that the way most of them do it anyway, on their terms? I’ve been through life crushing grief and have reached near indifference tinged with anger if I think about it too much. As in the case of so many other estranged parents, my AC were brought up with nurturing love. My son though has apparently percieved ‘slights’ thta caused deep offence. A major one being me being unable to attend his engagement party when I was (absolutely genuinely) ill!