MIL and sibling problems/ family estrangement/cut off

You sound like a very thoughtful, caring person, applesandpears. Hope you let us know how it all works out.

Wishing the best to you and yours!

Sadly, in my experience, people like your mother-in-law often feed off attempts at talking. It gives them more opportunity to exercise their personal thoughts regarding the relationship, thus causing more heartache to be processed, and it also gives them an entirely new script to quote to anyone who's prepared to listen....."do you know what she's said to me, her mother, now!!

Just follow your wife's lead. No one but the child of such a parent knows what is best for them. The time comes when they need to say enough.

applesandpears This is a fascinating idea, but I wouldn't allow such to hold sway.

I suspect the sooner dw co mil the happier for everybody.

Now you're just selecting between all sort of bad options, just quit.

When I used the so-called "ghosting" tactic I did not go into no contact mode. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. One chooses what one will allow to get through. I became temporarily unavailable by phone to the person in question until I gathered, from other evidence, that I had meant what I said when I said I didn't want to talk about it, "it" being the problem which was none of the other person's business but which they kept pestering me about.

* until I gathered from other evidence that she had accepted what I had repeatedly said.

I know you can't separate it completely, but I think that a DGC's relationship with a DGP can be entirely different to that of a DC and DP. You say your younger child hugged DGM very tightly; they may have a special bond and it would be a pity to cut off that relationship. You would probably find that, if MIL started to try to turn your child against her mother, child would be very defensive of her mother and would decide for herself not to see DGM any more.

Having read all the posts and, of course, the OP's missive - I would suggest that you all just "cool it". Cut through the dross and just send cards to all parties i.e. MIL and DW's sibling/children with an appropriate voucher for birthdays and Christmas (minimal for the adults or omit the sibling altogether). Thus keeping the lines open but not any actual personal communication/discussion involved. Leave it like this for a few years and yes - at some point, a funeral will be involved (MIL) hopefully - and all can meet up and discuss/be involved in this - which actually can and does mend many a splintered family. So, in short, support your wife to cut all personal communication with her family (thus protecting all of you (and herself)) but showing your children that there is a way through family conflict without having a major showdown. Keeping the lines open is so important. This sets the ball firmly in their quarter. This works - trust me - it may take a while but the relief felt when that decision is taken is considerable. Children do not need grandparents anywhere near as much as they need happy parents working together. Sorry if I offend GPs on here but that is my opinion.

Apples, the more I think about this, the more i suspect that there were problems between dw and her sister for many years, going back to childhood. Is that true?

And maybe sis was mil's "favorite," if only in dw's eyes? Perhaps their personalities just complimented each other better or sis was willing to put up with more of mil's bad behavior? I'm just "shooting in the dark" here and I may be totally wrong. But what I'm getting at is that these issues involving the 3 of them - dw, her sister and mil - may have been going on for a long time. Dw may just be at the end of her rope, especially now that she feels it's hitting her/your kids.

About the kids - The teenager is at about the age where they can pretty much do what they want. Would dw be ok with it if he kept up a relationship with her on his own if he wanted?

But I know it's the younger boy who seems to have some attachment to mil. Maybe you and dw can let him keep in touch with her via cards, etc. till he's old enough to decide if he would like to visit her on his own, etc? Just some thoughts...

I think we need to accept that many estrangements occur for a very good reason. And that is that the person cut out, whether parent or child, has been acting in a totally unacceptable manner. I think we also need to realise that in those circumstances the person whose unacceptable behaviour has caused the problem will never ever accept that that is the case and will always see themselves as the wronged person in the estrangement.

Do not waste your time vindicating or explaining, you have obviously already tried this without effect. As you already know, these reasons and explanations will never be accepted anyway.

Decide how you want to leave whether with a decisive cutting of all contact, or, as suggested, 'ghosting'. The best policy will vary from case to case. I would recommend saying little to your children. Early teens/pre-teens is a difficult time to try and make them understand adult problems. Wait until the say something and then give neutral answers. Playing second place to other grandchildren is not fair on them anyway. Better they have reasonably pleasant memories of a GM they rarely saw than bad memories of one they saw enough of not to to like and who played manipulative games with them.

I would arrange to see mil and go as a couple, stating you need to sort a few things out. Begin by saying you will not have the children drawn into any games, would she explain why she behaves as she does. Do your best to be calm and listen to what she says. If she behaves like a complete nightmare and will not see the problems and try to seek a solution to the situation, the I would say you cannot tolerate the things as they are, as it is putting too much strain on your whole family and that it is best, for the forseeable future, that contact be just limited to birthday and Christmas cards, that is all and make sure she understands that.. It is a pity your lovely children are denied a grandparent, but not a vindictive one. I am so sorry for the loss of what sounds like,your wonderful parents, you are still grieving as must your children, they do not need bitterness in their lives. You make a great family by the sound of it, that is enough. I am the last person to approve of no contact being on the receiving end, but your family unit must come first. It is not a healthy situation as it is. Good luck.

Thank you all again this is really helpful. I will try to clear up a few points...

We did try the minimal contact thing with the sibling but they were so childish DW gave up and cut contact with them and their DC. They wouldn’t let us see their one baby child at the time so we never built up a relationship. Perhaps they were ghosting us!

It was more obvious that they were being unreasonable though-blanking us when we were at MIL’s (including our DC’s) for example. It was like being back in primary school! We don’t want a relationship with them either but we did attempt to be civil when in the same room as it’s just upsetting for everyone else.

Then the worst thing:- they started sending presents/cards to our DC’s but still completely ignoring us!

Then they wanted to talk to us-to ask for money.

That’s when DW decided to cut them out.

DW does feel that sib was/is the favourite. The upset with MIL is really because she condones the sib’s mistreatment of DW.

MIL is not interested in DW’s feelings about the estrangement- she just says she wants DW to stop ‘upsetting’ her other child!

This has confirmed that DW is not important to MIL.

Little things, for example, someone told her that both I and our youngest DC had flu at Christmas (and I was really poorly, DC bounced back as they do!) she didn’t call us but sent a get well card to our DC only, saying how much she missed them! She doesn’t normally send cards btw-not even when our DC’s have been in hospital.

It feels like they all want rid of us but won’t leave us alone because they want to get to our DC’s!

Because of the above DW does not want the GC’s to have a relationship with MIL alone. DW wanted a relationship with her mum (this is what I wanted to help her with).
She is really hurt and doesn’t want our DC’s to be turned against us too, which is what we both feel is happening.

So you see DW feels better going NC with MIL, except non of them will leave our children alone so it is very stressful for her!

Thanks again for any advice ...

What's so bad about a child's aunt or uncle sending the child presents and cards but not sending presents and cards to the child's parents?

Sorry if I've misunderstood but I don't see anything wrong with that. Perhaps your wife's sister thinks you're grown up enough not to need a card from your sister-in-law when you have flu whereas the child is a child.

I had a relationship with one of my aunts when my parents didn't. Whatever the adults fell out about was nothing to do with me. Are your and your wife's difficulties with her mother and sister anything to do with your children? Really? Is it possible that sister-in-law thinks the tension between her and her sister should not affect her relationship with anyone else. Likewise your mother-in-law.

Just wondering.

Think of it this way: your child's aunt is a blood relation of the child. The child's aunt is not a blood relation of yours. Other than basic civility, which doesn't include get well cards when you have the flu, she owes you nothing. She is not obliged to like you.

She's not obliged to like her blood relations either. Just to be clear

I do think you and your wife ought to think again about cutting the children off completely from their relatives. Cut yourselves off by all means if you want to but cards, presents, skypes, etc between grandma or aunt and your kids can still occur, surely.

Because your wife's problems with her sister and mother are not your kids' problems.

If it's your Mil who's cutting you and your family out, as you say in your OP, there's not much you can do to stop that. Just walk away.

If Mil gets in touch with the kids, depending on their ages obviously, and depending how actually poisonous she is, I don't see why you and your wife can't just let her have a relationship with them and not with you and your wife.

Bags will now shut up.

thatbags you have misunderstood. It was MIL and not my DW's sibling who sent the card. Also the tension is between DW and the sibling AND MIL.

I was wrong to use the example of the card. As I explained it was a petty thing.

I did not want or expect a card. Its not about the card-its about manipulation.
If its ok for MIL to send cards, why didn't she send a card to DC when they were in hospital then?

So what if they share blood! This should not give people an automatic right to treat people badly.

MIL and sib are setting very bad examples of how to treat people and we don't think that is healthy for our DC's. e.g. demanding money from us then cutting us out when we say no.

If they continue as they have done, it's only a matter of time before the sibling starts asking our DC's for money (and MIL will pressurise them to oblige).

If we give in and condone relationships with them as the relationships stand at present we are showing our children it is ok for people to walk all over them.

I have asked for advice on how I could help my DW to have a relationship with her mother.

I don't care whether any of them like ME. I do care that they treat my family with respect.

Asking children for money! And your kids have the kind of money that an untrustworthy adult would want?

Asking for trouble!

Can't you protect your kids' money?

I think you need to stop agonising and just cut yourselves off.
As I said earlier. I'd have drifted away long since.

The DC's don't have money (neither do we!) but I mean they will push our kids to ask us and also it won't be long before they will be able to earn their own money. They can be very patient when they want something!

Yes drifting away looks like the way it will pan out eventually.
I didn't want it to come to that but there is only so much you can do!

Thanks for your thoughts btw.

Sounds as if there's no love or trust between the sisters and between your wife and her mother. That is sad but sadness about one's relations is easier to live with constantly threatened or non-existent trust.

And that is that the person cut out, whether parent or child, has been acting in a totally unacceptable manner

Not only is this statement completely inaccurate, it is also inflammatory. Like others, I have never "acted in a totally unacceptable manner", but have still been cut out of my granddaughters life, by my daughter-in-law. When the child was born I was in hospital, fighting sepsis, in no fit state to act at all. Since then, when my son has attempted to bring my granddaughter he has been attacked and threatened, in front of his child. So, who's the one acting in a totally unacceptable manner?

MOnica That seems like a very wide generalisation that does not have to be accepted. Every case is different

Rosyglow8 You left out the bit before the quote you gave.I said:
* many* estrangements occur for a very good reason.... Followed directly by your quote. not all estrangements, because I know some estrangements happen even though the person estranged has done and said nothing, and I feel very sorry that this is what has happened in your case, but that does not invalidate the wider statement and it is neither inaccurate nor inflammatory.