MIL and sibling problems/ family estrangement/cut off

Sadly, in my experience, people like your mother-in-law often feed off attempts at talking. It gives them more opportunity to exercise their personal thoughts regarding the relationship, thus causing more heartache to be processed, and it also gives them an entirely new script to quote to anyone who's prepared to listen....."do you know what she's said to me, her mother, now!!

Just follow your wife's lead. No one but the child of such a parent knows what is best for them. The time comes when they need to say enough.

You sound like a very thoughtful, caring person, applesandpears. Hope you let us know how it all works out.

Wishing the best to you and yours!

Some good points again and things I hadn't thought of too-yes I don't want to get the blame star, if she decides she can, it really must be my DW who does the talking-perhaps I could be there too to support her and prompt/clarify if needed.
I agree with your suggestion re not stating the obvious about ending up going NC. Thank you.

I get the ghosting thing too thatbags. I can see how it could come to that for us and I guess sometimes it is the only way to protect your family and only done as a very last resort.

Sometimes drifting away (ghosting if you prefer) is the only option. I've only used it when the straightforward telling that madgran recommends didn't work! Sometimes what one says, even repeatedly, just doesn't go in. At that point, you shrug and drift away. Actions speak louder than words sometimes. Nothing wrong with that. Using it is just a tactic.

"We are always reading on here that GP who have been cut off don't 'know what we did wrong' and I think it only fair that they are told"

^ This is what I was thinking. In fact, maybe the reason so many gps "don't know" what went wrong is that they were ghosted.

But I get your concern about sounding as if you are/dw is making a threat, Apples. Perhaps you/dw can simply explain why you've gone lc? Hopefully, she'll realize on her own that if she persists in her behavior, it will be fully nc? Or if you people decide to go nc, you can just then say, "We told you what the problems were and you ignored us. Now we're done." You and dw, of course, will have to talk over what you think is best.

One problem with your approaching mil instead of dw is that if she gets angry at what you say, she'll very likely end up blaming whatever happens on you. She might, anyway, but maybe not as much. If dw speaks to her, at least, she won't have your words as "evidence" that it "all" you. Idk if you care about that, but if you do, it's something to think about.

Again, thank you all so much for all the fabulous advice and your kind thoughts. I am taking it all on board and discussing it with my DW-she is very grateful too by the way. It is sad for all of us but it must be worse for my DW. I agree that I should be led by her.

Thank you also to those of you who are facing this yourselves with your DC. It really is invaluable to get insight and advice from the other side. I am so sorry for you. I really hope you are able to have the chance to resolve things with your family one day.

I would really like to try to explain our POV to MIL.

The problem in DW’s experience so far is that MIL has not been reasonable and open to discussion as many of you seem to be.

MIL has always been dismissive of DW's feelings. She is afraid that if MIL sees her vulnerability she will use it against her somehow and that MIL will show any written communication to everyone and comment on how oversensitive and mean she is.

So she will not speak to MIL about it. I would though!(with permission)

DW tried to explain the reasons that she cannot get on with her sibling to MIL and she just shrugged and said:-

“Well you know what she’s like-what can I do?”

I think she is leaning towards v.v.v.LC with the keeping achievements to ourselves option. If this doesn’t work then sadly, NC will be the way to go. Maybe I/we could explain to MIL the reasons why we are already LC and how we want it to stay that way and explain that if she or the SIL continue with the poor treatment we will just not bother anymore-I just don’t want this to sound like a threat?!

Starlady-exactly. MIL does seem to be withdrawing from us. That’s exactly how it feels. She doesn’t want us. She keeps us hanging around in the background in case she’s desperate/her other child wants something that she can’t do for them.

As for our DC’s I wonder that she can’t cope with us not toeing the line and feels rejected by us, so she is keen to get to our DC’s and persuade them that we are wrong?
They are pre-teen and early teenage btw.

We have tried to explain our position to the DC's but we were very careful to stress that although MIL has treated us all badly, we don’t believe that she is deliberately being cruel, just that she isn’t capable of operating any differently and that sadly, it’s just the way she is.

The DC’s are very protective of my DW over this. They were actually a bit frosty with MIL to start with last time they saw her (I didn’t expect that and felt quite bad) but on leaving, the younger one hugged her so tightly...this is what makes me feel mean.

The GC are missing out (on SOME positive things) and I’m sure MIL is nicer to them than she is to us even though they are still second in line to the other GC. I don't want our DC's to resent us for this!

It’s SO difficult!

Jalima - I suggested your first point to DW some years ago! it could be a possibility and yes they did come with the presents after the rift but it was years later. They did ask to sort things out but when DW tried and explained, the sibling just said it was all DW’s fault and walked away?!

It wasn’t a holiday home btw, they wanted to rent out their first home and move to a ‘nicer’ area to get their DC’s in to a ‘better’ school. Why couldn’t they just sell their house and move to the ‘better’ area?!

Sorry for making it another the mammoth post!

Thanks for reading.

Did the sibling arrive with presents after the rift over finance? Perhaps that was an excuse to call to say sorry but your DW turned her away without finding out.
Just a thought.
I think clearing the air is better than letting it simmer away and eating you up.

I just wonder sometimes when people go on endlessly about the virtues of another member of the family but seem indifferent to you whether they are doing the same to them and extolling your virtues ad nauseum.

It is up to your DW to decide what to do, whether to tell them all how she feels about the situation and possibly cause a permanent rift or it could clear the air - or to just distance herself from them all and it's up to you to support her in what she chooses to do without influencing her decision.
The trouble is, your DW could worry away at this if you just distance yourselves and it coukd cause her more stress in the long term.
It depends, too, how old the children are and whether they have noticed that they are treated differently - would they ask questions about why they don't see their DGM any more - will they feel resentful that you made the decision to cut them off from their only grandparent even though she favours the other ones?

You have to support but not influence here, as someone else said, it could come back to bite you.

I cannot for the life of me see why you should support the sibling financially or contribute to their holiday home unless you were going use it for holidays yourself!

Perhaps the sibling has no idea that this is going on and arrived in all good faith to bring your DC presents, only to be turned away.
Resentment can eat away and make a person miserable - it is a very destructive emotion.

I hope you can sort it out.

Ghosting is a dreadful idea IMO!!! Telling them your reasons leaves noone in any doubt and means that you can walk away , if that's what you do, knowing that you have acted fairly, openly and taken responsibility. Ghosting just gives excuses for blaming you to others.
I cannot believe that anyone could think it was a good idea!!

It is admirable that you are trying so hard to unite your family, but sometimes you have to accept you are banging your head against a brick wall. Maybe it's time for a period of not talking or thinking about the situation or prempting future scenarios. Try to enjoy your own lives living in the present. You have become so caught up in the why's & wherefores that you are missing out on the here & now of your own (if you let it) lives , good luck

Good advice on here and I think you have to let these people out of your lives BUT you do have to sit down with them (preferably) or (second best) write, phone or email them and tell them exactly why you are cutting all contact. We are always reading on here that GP who have been cut off don't 'know what we did wrong' and I think it only fair that they are told - and this includes the ridiculous such as asking for financial aid to buy a second home.

Starlady I do think ghosting is a brilliant solution. That and not discussing any accomplishments (or really anything at all) should do the trick, in my opinion.

Since mil doesn't really seem to want you and dw in her life, perhaps ghosting would suit all. But ghosting means you just slip out of someone's life without letting them know why. Maybe dw would say, mil "should know." But, imo, it might be better to at least write her a brief note, send her an email, saying that since she seems to be pulling away from you, you've decided to let the relationship go altogether.

I know, she'll argue that she still wants to see your dcs. You - or better, dw - will have to let her know this isn't possible. How would it work? If she has no relationship with you people and vice versa, how does she think you're going to transfer dc back & forth?

Goind nc won't stop sil from trying to visit or influence you. In fact, she might redouble her efforts. Dw might have to break off contact with her, too, and let her know that, as well.

At the extreme, you might have to move and not give even mil your address. But I hope it doesn't come to that.

In fact, I hope that dw decides that lc is good enough and that it isn't necessary to go full nc. Perhaps you and she can simply advise your dc not to discuss accomplishments with this granny, just to have fun with her, etc. But idk if that would help or if she would still find a way to hurt them. Dw, surely, knows her mum better than you or I. She needs to figure this out. Trust her.

thatbags Time to drift away, I think.

Some call it "ghosting". Brilliant!

I heard an interesting thing the other day that you might find useful, OP:

"Some people will love you and some people will hate you and none of it has anything to do with you."

Yes, it's trite and even possibly inaccurate in part, but there is a depth to it that you might apply to your MiL's behaviour: her behaviour towards you and your family is nothing to do with you or your wife or your children, it's just how she is. Time to drift away, I think.

Applesandpears, first my condolences on the loss of your parents. I understand your wanting GPs for your kids and thank you for appreciating our importance in a child's life. But I'm going to join those who say you need to follow dw's lead here. It's her mom, she knows her better than you and she's being hurt by her. As hard as it is for you to see your kids hurt by mil, as well, it's probably even harder for dw. Please back off and let her make the call.

I wish it were enough that you've already distanced yourselves a bit, but obviously not. I believe in lc (lowered contact) rather than nc, but I guess it's not working here.

It seems you and dw have become the victim of what some people I know call "flying monkeys" - people who get in the middle and try to intervene on behalf of one party in a feud. Sometimes they mean well and sometimes they're just busybodies or dupes of the person they're defending. Please don't spend time arguing with them or defending yourselves to them - not even dw's sister. This issue is between you people and mil - mostly between dw and mil. You don't have to discuss it with anyone else - just change the subject.

As for the issues with sil, herself, I'm glad dw doesn't let her in with her supposed gifts. It seems like a ruse to me, just to get into your home, see your family and argue for mil.

As pps have said, what you "want" is beautiful, but not very realistic n this situation. It just doesn't look like it's going to happen. Maybe you people don't have to co mil completely. But, imo, you need to let go of your fantasy before you can see it all clearly.

apples and pears I agree with Smileless that your MIL and your DWs sibling should be told very clearly what the problem is, how behaviour impacts on you all ...they may well respond with more of the same, but at least you and DW will know for certain that they have been told clearly and unequivocally. If she carries on anyway, then I wonder as well whether other relatives might need to be told clearly and unequivocally why you/DW have decided to step back from her(MIL). There are reasons to do that but ofcourse it could also cause even more trouble...only you and DW can decide the wisdom or not of that course of action

What a well written post applesandpears; your love for your wife and children is evident as is your concern for their well being.

My husband and I have been estranged from our son and only GC for just over 4.5 years so we know too well that pain and heartache that this causes. You asked if anyone here were faced with the real possibility of becoming estranged from their AC and GC if they'd want to know and if they'd want to put it right; YES absolutely but that said, this is not the sort of behaviour one should or would expect from their own mother and the GM of their children but of course it can does happen.

Can your m.i.l. be totally blind to the way she behaves and it's affect on your wife, your children and yourself? Well it's a possibility I suppose and if that's the case she'll need to be told so that she has the opportunity to make amends.

You don't say how old your children are; are they old enough if it's explained to them why, if it comes to this, they wont be seeing their GM anymore?

IMHO I think your m.i.l. should be told about what she does and says that causes so much distress to you all. I don't think you should do anything behind your wife's back, not that you've said you would but I also don't agree that you should refrain from speaking or writing to her if you feel very strongly that you should, even if your wife isn't in agreement.

If your wife wishes to become estranged from her mother, and she has my sympathy and understanding, her decision will have repercussions for all of the family, especially herself, you and your children.

Approaching your m.i.l. may not make any difference to the way she behaves but at least you'll have tried and you may find you're better able to give your wife the support she needs if you know you did everything you could to prevent this estrangement from happening.

I wish you well.

Thank you all for your replies-I've had some very useful advice here.

It is interesting to see that you all think it best that we let this relationship go. It is very sad but we will just have to cope with it. It is reassuring that it’s not just us!

I agree that I need to support DW (I would never have gone against her wishes). I just wondered if there was some magic thing I hadn't thought of that I could suggest to her that might work for all of us, like spelling out to MIL what she was doing.

We do want to protect our DC’s from this and thank you for the insight in to your experiences from those of you who have also been there.

However, NC is not straightforward. We have been trying to minimise things and this has resulted in DW's sibling coming to our house uninvited trying to see our DC's on the excuse of giving them Christmas/birthday presents (I say excuse because it is always months late and only some years). DW never lets them in. I let her deal with them on these occasions. They weren't even given our address; MIL must have given it out. (We don’t know where they live though). This is really annoying. We are really happy where we live and don’t want to move but we do dream about emigrating to get away from them!

Also, there are other members of MIL’s family who have showed disapproval to us since we have distanced ourselves. This hurts as they seemed nice but now it feels like they are blaming us too!

We are both scared that MIL’s family will try to get our DC to side with them and as our DC’s don’t really understand why they don’t see her anymore although they don’t ask about her. That speaks volumes it’s self I suppose.

If anyone has any further advice it would be appreciated.

Thank you

"I personally had a GM that sounds very much like your MIL. It took me a long time to forgive my parents for exposing me to that as she constantly made me feel less than."

That's the harsh reality isn't it?
Take your wife's lead. Protect your children. You can't change her behaviour just how you react to it.

Respect your DW's decision to not have a relationship with MIL anymore. It doesn't sound like MIL brings anything good to your lives, and it's probably VERY PAINFUL for your children to be constantly exposed to that negativity.

I personally had a GM that sounds very much like your MIL. It took me a long time to forgive my parents for exposing me to that as she constantly made me feel less than.

I feel that you really must respect your wife's wishes here. She has not reached this decision lightly. To oppose those wishes would be to subject her to more hurt and pain. Your children will also be better off without judgements and comparisons from someone who is supposed to just love them. Just continue to love and support her, as you always have done.

I would be a kind and nonjudgmental listener for my spouse. No opinions or nattering on about the mum. Blood runs thick and I would never want anything I said to come back to bite me.

Otherwise, I'd happily get on with our own life and children.

As I understand your post, your DW's one surviving parent, her mother, is a deeply unpleasant person who has made it clear that her favourite child is her sister she constantly criticises your DW, and by implication, her family. This has been happening for quite a period of time and it is clear your MiL will not change her behaviour in the foreseeable future. Your DW has decided that enough is enough and she wants no more contact with her mother.

You say I want all of us to have a good relationship. I want MIL to act fairly and stop trying to force us to do unacceptable things for her other child (why is she doing this?) Is any of this possible? I would say the answer to that is blindingly obvious. You need to accept that as much as you would like a good relationship with your MiL and to all be happy together this ain't going to happen.

Your DW clearly realises this and has decided that she no longer wants to be in contact with her, so why are you still chasing, what in your family's case is this impossible day dream of peace and harmony, mother love and apple pie. Your job is to support your wife in this decision and between you develop the kind of happy family life you want, but without any input from her family.

Your children are not unique in not having any grandparents in their life. They presumably will have many happy memories of your parents so nurture those. There is nothing to be gained from trying to foster a relationship between your children and someone deeply unpleasant, just because they are a grandparent. It won't work.

So stop wasting time and effort trying to change something that cannot be changed. Accept the situation as it is and build a happy life together.

To clarify, I also have grown up step DS's and a gorgeous DGS who is 4 today!
I can't imagine for a second treating any of the boys as second best. They're all my family and loved equally.