Daughter and Son in Law dilema

I was sorry to read your post TripleDfor you.

My daughter has been married for nearly 11 years and it's been difficult. My son in law left her after only 6 months of marriage. He moved into a gated community that only allowed their renters access. He had to find himself. I didn't tell anyone except very close family. I went to a friends party shortly after the separation and my friend asked if everything was ok with my daughter and son in law in a funny, reluctant manner? I Said " they were ok and asked her why was she asking? She replied "Well My neice was over the other day and commented on the save the date magnet that you sent for their wedding over a year ago. Her neice was surprised that he was getting married because he has a girlfriend at work and it's not the girl in the picture. My friend told her neice " well that's an old picture and he is already married" I was devastated. I did tell my son in law about the conversation and he was very flippant. He told me "look I can have female friends and people need to mind their own business." I told him that is true. However , you shouldn't give them a reason to talk at work and he that he owed it to my daughter to be truthful ". She is is wife. I told my daughter also and she pretty much said the same thing so I left it alone. After 6 months of separation they reunited. 2 years later our beautiful granddaughter was born. At 7 months pregnant my daughter had a partial uterine abruption/hemorrhage and was hospitalized for the remainder of pregnancy. She delivered my granddaughter a month early. This was a very difficult time for all of us. During my daughter's hospitalization we noticed my son in law pulling away again. My husband and I offered to help with their pets so that he could spend some nights with his wife at the hospital. He always declined. His visits were always brief and this was strange because he works 2 floors down in the ER department of the hospital. Fast forward 18 months later and my daughter is concerned that he is pulling away and does not want to spend anytime or do anything with her and their child. She is catching him in lies over and over again. She confronts him and he says " I don't know what is wrong or what I want." She did look.at his phone records and found a phone number that he had been spending a lot of time speaking with. She found out that he was having a relationship with the female director of the rehab facility at the hospital. A single woman with no baggage. They went to marriage counseling so many times. He did not change his ways and my daughter refuses to see this. He has let my daughter plan vacations and then he always backs out at the last minute. He tells my daughter that he is depressed and is seeing a doctor. He is a fitness guy and takes very good care of himself. He does not fit the picture of clinical depression. I told my daughter this and again She refuses to see the truth. Well, now my granddaughter is almost 6 years old and a month ago they were cleaning their pool area. His phone fell on the ground and when my daudaughter picked it up it displayed a text message from none other that the same woman at the fitness/rehab center at the hospital. He is still seeing her for over 5 years now. My daughter kicked him out and he is now saying " it's really now over for good". I'm disgusted with both my daughter and son in law. My concern is my granddaughter. She does not know what a normal family looks like. She does everything with my daughter because "daddy is always at work". This man does not even take them out to eat at McDonald's. My husband and I are invited along on trips, etc because they are always alone. This breaks our hearts. We are building great memories with our girls but she deserves to have a father. He does contribute financially but denies them love and affection. It's emotional and psychological abuse. He is very passive aggressive. My daughter cannot see this and wants her marriage to work. I recently exploded and told her exactly how I feel. I expressed my anger at her for allowing him to treat her so badly. I voiced my concern regarding my granddaughter. She is very sad that her daddy lives somewhere else and cries. I'm afraid that she will one day think it's normal for a,woman to accept this type of abuse. My daughter tells me " mom you need to get over being abandoned by your own father. You're projecting your feelings onto my child. " I just want her to understand that she and my granddaughter deserve so much more. I find myself pulling away from my daughter. This is so difficult to watch. She refuses to see that she is in a toxic relationship.

You have my sympathy suzi, such a difficult time for everyone. You are supporting your daughter and the children but you obviously think your son in law has problems too. Can you talk to one of his family members or parents about getting him to seek help. Sounds like his job is stressful, they will still help him with counselling if he requests it I'm sure.
I hope things improve for everyone soon, best wishes.

My daughter had a major cry for help last Thursday when she messaged me saying, she couldn't carry on anymore and thanking her dad and I for all our help and support. I jumped in the car while my husband tried to contact her on the phone. When I got there my son in law was there and she was crying uncontrollaby. I told her to pack a bag for her and the children and that she was coming home with me. I had a massive row with my son in law, maybe saying some things I shouldn't have and when we left he was in tears too. My daughter is now back at her house but he still keeps coming round. He has a very stressful job for the police and I'm wondering if he has got PTSD. He was the first on scene for a very stressful and shocking event last year. He was offered counselling but refused it. He's adamant he still doesn't want to go home to his wife and kids, but he seems really sad all the time. Thank you for all your support. X

Firstly if they are going to divorce they will have to take part in mediation, it is a generally a requirement. Mediation isn't marriage counselling it is a way of sorting out all the problems that arise when a couple divorce, property, child access etc. Relationship counselling is a different thing and if your daughter is feeling very upset it might help her. She can go on her own without him if she wishes. There has been a lot of condemnation of your SIL but as far as I can see he is doing his best to make things easier, even if he isn't doing it very well. Could you arrange to have the children while they go out somewhere to discuss the situation and where they go from here? If they are in a public place like a cafe or bar they are less likely to argue. Your daughter could think exactly what would make it easier for her to cope and make her requirements clear to him. It isn't going to be easy for anyone concerned but if it happens with consideration and care it will be better than starting to demonise anyone. That said your DD will need to be strong and make clear that she isn't going to accept him treating her badly.
It's a terrible time for all, but everyone can get through it and children do adapt.

I agree with Norah, keep your feeling that he is a good person and father in the forefront of your mind. Also, I don't want to give you false hope, but my daughter and son in law who split up and got back together, were also 15 and 16 when they met. He did have a fling but they are o.k. now. I suppose getting together so young, people do think "what if?"

You say he is a good person and father, you like him, keep that forefront.

He's over being married to dd, happens without another person involved.

Who owns the home? Does he still have rights to come and go? Maybe she could be ready to leave when he arrives to visit the children, not being near his presense would help (to me).

Talk up starting again with a new person, maybe dd just needs support that direction.

If they have been together since 15 and 16 it may have just come to an end for him The hardest part is when one is still in love and one isn't I think as you have fairly said he's been a good husband, a good son in law and been faithful .... why all doubt him ( I ve been cheated on in three relationships but still think people can be faithful) just accept that it may have pure and simply run it's time

People can co parent successfully (mine walked off to another country never paid a penny and only contact was a phone call every now and then) ... let the man be a good father from outside the marriage I agree to the children going to him or daughter going out when he comes round but that's not going to happen while she is trying to get him back is it ? as she will be looking forward to his visits and may be encouraging him to come

I wouldn't hold out the hope of them getting back I think that is invariable a big mistake, a broken vase never holds the water fully after it's mended
You're biggest hope is that in time they will be friends and both parent well from outside the marriage
Keep loving them both he doesn't sound a bad man

Suzi, how very sad for you all. No one knows the dynamics of anyone's marriage, it is just so very hard to just be there and supportive, whilst not judging. I must admit that all the people I know that this has happened to, there was someone else in the background, but every situation is different. You sound a very loving caring, mother, mother in law and grandma, it would be lovely if in time this situation could be resolved but if not, your unconditional love can do nothing but good.

I'm glad we were of help, suzi.

It sounds as if you would like dd and sil to get back together, yourself. Maybe they will, but maybe not.

Why does he get upset when he calls to arrange to see the children? Also, how do you know he's also calling to see dd? Isn't it possible he truly does just want to see the little ones?

He swears he has been faithful for 16 years. He has always been a lovely son in law and has helped my husband and myself on numerous occasions. I miss him as well. Sometimes he gets upset when he calls to see the children (and my daughter). My gut feeling is that he will come back but as he met my daughter when he was 16and she was 15I do wonder if he wants to 'play the field'. No idea how my daughter would cope with that. She had a massive row with his mother on mothers day but he did support her and told his mother she was out of order. I've asked them about counselling or mediation but they don't want to do that. Maybe it's too soon. Thank you for all your comments. You have helped.

We can't really know what's in his mind, Suzi. But I agree with those who say there needs to be a definite schedule of visitation with the children. Maybe there should even be a definite schedule of phone calls, too. If they eventually go through a divorce, this may get sorted out better. But perhaps DD could set a few boundaries now.

You could suggest it to her - and counseling, as well - but she may not be ready to hear any of that yet. The most important thing is to be a shoulder for her, right now, and maybe for the kids, too. As someone else said, please be careful not to take sides. If they end up together, any negative comments you made could come back to haunt you.

It sounds as if DD's heart is still involved, but she may have to let go. Time will tell.

your poor daughter (and you!). I went through similar with my daughter a few years ago Her now ex has turned out to be a very nasty piece of work. As the other people have said, just be there for her, and give her loads of support. Hopefully before too long everything will settle down for her and the children, and they can move on, and realise they are better off without him.

So sorry to hear of this "tangled web"
I agree that it's unfair for the husband to keep going to the marital home in that way.
His poor wife must be in bits and hope.
Hoping it gets sorted as painlessly as possible.

She has to take some control back, he's walked out,come back, walked out again. Now he turns up when it suits him and she's living in hope every time, this is very unhealthy cos he's playing with her emotions and She's allowing this to happen.I went thru this for 8 months until I put a stop to it, he then realised I wasn't a door mat anymore and I gained the respect I deserved.Hes gone so arrangements to see the children should be preplanned not when it suits him as there are two of them in this marriage.Just keep listening and supporting .

What about Relate? Their counsellors are well trained and supported. The organisation moved from working only to sustain marriages to helping people who work on separating as constructively as possible.

Jenpax - unfortunately there is no legal aid for mediation unless or legal aid for any court procedures or legal fees unless you can provide evidence of abuse.

My daughter was in a similar situation last year with all the visits from ex - confusing both her and her children. She asked him to stay away for 3 weeks so that they could settle to new routines and expectations. It's the kids who suffer with all the guesswork and uncertainty. Eventually, with mediation, they established a routine. He left for another woman but still insists that he call round for 'a chat' when he intimidates her and tries to make changes to the agreed plan. Mediation services/counselling helps but there is no real expert on such a subject as human relationships.

I would suggest your daughter talks to him about mediation this would help to sort out issues around child arrangements housing and finances etc and she may be eligible for legal aid for this and would give them a way of discussing it in a neutral environment

Some sort of mediation to put a structure in place and for your daughter to fully understand what has gone wrong from his point of view maybe. It's horrible, your daughter will be grieving one minute and hopeful the next. Probably not sleeping well, which makes decision making difficult if you are tired. My heart goes out to her.

I can certainly see that him being in and out all the time is going to make it extremely hard for her to get used to him having left. But legally as far as I know he has a right to come and go as he wishes, until it is no longer legally his home. His behaviour seems a little selfish - cake and eat it. Perhaps the OP's daughter can use his presence to look after the children and enable her to go out and see friends on her own - she might even meet new men

Boundries are needed to prevent further pain. He chose to eave he will have to get on and sort out how that works. 16 years and they weren't still 'loved up' well, there's a surprise.

Some people like to see how much they'e missed, don't let him be one of them. If he is at his pparents he can take the kids there.

Your daughter can start picking herself up as soon as possible.

Being distraught is hideous (been there and got to be rather good at it) but it changes nothing, letting go is hell but he has gone, just using her as his scurity blanket until he owns up why he really went, cowardly all round of him.

How many times have I heard "there isn't anyone else". My advice would be ask him to stop popping in when he feels like it but make arrangements for him to see the children away from the family home. He wants his cake and eat it.

My D has also been there. They have been separated nearly 3 years but not divorced. The C were very affected but are better now.
Their father is living 3000 miles away but speaks to them everyday and my GS has just spent 2 months with him and his new lady, both GC are going out in the summer.
It has taken time but my D is building a new life and would never have him back.
I hope very sincerely that your D starts to live for herself and the children.
Remember the best revenge is to be happy. She must look on his visits as being to the children and not to her and try to find something really interesting to do that she can look forward to instead of just dread and false hope as she is doing now.

I would advise going to couple therapy. There is obviously a lot of ambivalence of his part, but his behaviour is cruel. Your daughter needs to have some resolution. I really hope this gets sorted out.