Daughter and Son in Law dilema

I think you are doing all you can by supporting your daughter and the children. Provide a listening ear and don't take sides however much you may want to. It's so hard to step back when your daughter is suffering but they have to sort it out for themselves. I sympathise having been through this.

its good he still stops by to see his children,when my daughter divorced her husband he saw the kids every day then when she remarried he lost his job and thought about moving out of the area,my lovely daughter and her new husband gave him a job in their pub,he was there for two years and was around for the kids more than before .It was great for the wee ones .He did move out of the area a couple of years back and has remarried and he only sees his two oldest every 6 weeks or so ,and its a real issue in particular with his ten year old daughter ,who cries every time she leaves him.I know its hard on your daughter but if she can see its best for the children to keep regular contact with their dad she might cope better.Kids really suffer during a split so she needs to put them first

Your poor daughter.
I oils encourage her to create clear and con create boundaries with him.
He's gone. He is not her friend and he clearly doesn't care about her. So she needs to try and do the same.
He can obviously see the chdilren.
But this should be done at a prearranged time and not in her home, her safe place.
He can't just come whenever he wants.
She has a right to privacy and a right to try and re build her life.
He can have a relationship with his children without having to impose on her.

Some people like to keep their exes "on the boil" even when they no longer want to be with them.. it sounds like your SIL is one of those. It's absolutely infuriating to witness but you can't say anything because you "don't understand, it's complicated" and the more friends/family encourage a clean break the more it's resisted if that makes sense. Give her space and quiet support to get to the point herself. It's rotten though, it's so maddening when people do this! leave their OH but make sure their OH can't move on so that they know they have a fall-back!

Don't malign the man too much Notanan and Bibbity none of us can help it if we fall out of love, after all what do you expect that he just buggers off and doesn't see the children or stays in an unhappy relationship ? He can't do right from doing wrong we don't know that 'he clearly doesn't care about her' he might care very much but is no longer in love and trying to do the best thing in a difficult situation It's never as cut and dried as it sounds It also sounds very new so will take time to settle

He went, obviously then through his own feelings or pressure from your daughter and love of the kids he came back for another go, it didn't work. It's blooming hard for everyone , seeing him will make your daughter so unhappy as she is still in love with him but the children need to see him as regularly as possible so your daughter has to be the strong one and it will take every ounce of her strength and yes it would be better for them to see him outside the home if that's a possibility but I suppose if he's still paying the mortgage/rent, he will still have the right to enter his home .... If he's being truthful and there is no one else hopefully in time they will settle into a routine that will suit the children and both of them but it won't happen over night and there will be a lot of heartache. Children do adapt to different arrangements where they are free to spend time and love both parents it may take your daughter longer I m afraid

You just have to be as supportive as possible of your daughter take the lead from her as to what you can do to help ....but don't run him down to the kids he's their dad and they love him
Good luck

I'm with bibbity and notanan as to the general direction of travel. From what you've told us he is being incredibly selfish and just doing what he wants when he wants with no thought for a woman he has spent 26 years with and with whom he has two children. I don't even think he's thinking properly about the children either. For starters - leaving just before Christmas? Wonderful. He is feeding your daughter's hopes that he might come back by his behaviour - poor woman, how can she start to even begin to contemplate the next steps whilst he is behaving like this? I absolutely do not buy into seeing their father regularly like this is best for them. There are three sets of interests here that have to be taken into account and his wishes to see his children like this are severely hurting and damaging your dd's - she is now having to be the main carer and can only do that if she is emotionally strong enough - he is quite frankly being selfish. But of course, your daughter has to make that heartbreaking journey herself from hoping he'll return to realising he won't whilst you watch it all feeling helpless. You say she's depressed, has she been to the GP? Would they consider going to Relate? My understanding is that this isn't necessarily about keeping a marriage going but about helping a marriage to end in the least damaging way. Do you know what's happening about money? Have they any joint accounts? Do you take the children sometimes so she can go out with a friend - has she got a good woman friend that she might confide in? I wish there were a magic bullet to make this all right for everyone

Sorry 16 years

suziwhy do you think he is usuing the children as an excuse to visit ? Sounds like he is a great Dad. Your Daughter will be finding it hard, it is still early days. She needs to ask him straight out to come back if he says no then that has to be that and your DD needs to accept that the marriage is over and allow herself to grieve.It is very hard when one half of a couple still loves the other half but DD should ask herself if she really wants to live with someone who doesn't want be there.

I agree with grannypiper.

Very sad suzi and all too common a problem.
Years ago my BIL did a similar thing to his wife, constantly coming and going and making everything all about him and his angst ( selfish idiot) and his wife and children suffered as a result, always hoping he would stay at home ( he eventually left for good.)
Your DD should now set boundaries, if only for her own sanity, of course he should see the children, but outside of the family home.

Harsh Rigby ....You have no idea of what went on before he left the first time He went FOR ONE DAY for all you know he may have been very sad to go he had a day away from home and then went back you can hardly call that leaving he went off for a days contemplation, realised it wasn't a good decision and returned the next day, so obviously he was hesitant about leaving he didn't just walk off to never be seen again it seems after a week or so he realised it was a bad move and went again, this time for good Now because we only know one side of the story how do we know his wife didn't beg him to come back the first time and not wanting to hurt her he did for her The original post says that the relationship had. ' not been great' so it looks as if it was a failing relationship for what reason none of us have a clue
Without hearing both sides of the story we can't judge wether he's a sinner or a saint it's incredible judgemental to hear a little snippet and condem him as the 'bad one'
The very worst thing in the world is unrequited love when one person is full of love and for the other it has died it's an incredibly nasty situation .....have they ever tried any counselling or mediation Suzie ...it can be very helpful to have a third person, unrelated, to identify problems and help the couple through this transition
I don't think it's at all useful to condem one or other without full facts

Don't malign the man too much Notanan and Bibbity none of us can help it if we fall out of love, after all what do you expect that he just buggers off and doesn't see the children or stays in an unhappy relationship

It's perfectly possible to end a relationship and still co-parent without leaving your ex confused and hanging on

it's still quite early on in this separation. I expect he doesn't quite know what to do with himself, so goes back to his old home as some sort of security. I agree with others though that this is most unfair on your daughter, and confusing for the children. But whatever you do, don't criticise him too much to your daughter, as one day they might well get back together.
This happened with one of my daughters,they got back together after about 18 months. She was hesitant about telling me and her sisters about the reconciliation for a while, because she knew how we had felt about him hurting her so much. They had no children at the time. They have been back together several years now and seem very happy.

Of course it is Notanan but we don't know that that's not what he's trying to do
I m just saying without the facts of BOTH sides we shouldn't come down hard on one or other
We don't know what goes on behind closed doors nor should we but let's take a possible scenario ...what if he loves his wife as the mother of his children but they argue all the time (it happens) and he feels they can't go on they talk over about splitting up but she's beside herself and he doesn't want to hurt her more than necessary so they stay together ( perhaps even for the sake of the children) but his hearts not in it and eventually he tells her he has to leave he goes to his mums but all the next day he gets calls begging him to return They could be totally desperate calls he is so upset and worried he goes back after a day but then it starts up again the arguing and blaming and being toxic he realises how bad it is for the children and again leaves saying this time it's for good
Does that really make him such a bad person
Of course he might be a complete arsehole but from the information given in the first post that's not obvious So why be so damming of just him without the full facts

He doesn't sound like a great dad to me grannypiper surely a great dad would stay at home and try to make his relationship work. His wife sounds as though that's what she wants to do and isn't that what marriage is about?

This is very hard, especially for the children. Your daughter needs to put herself first. I know this sounds odd but perhaps when he visits she should leave him with the children and go out. Get away from him. He is the cause of her misery right now and that's hurting them all. There is always two sides to a story and clearly he's hurting too. If there isn't anyone else as he says, then he needs to explain his actions but right now they both need space to work out what has happened, why he's taken such a defining step to move out. It's too raw for them to talk right now so the best thing you can do is get your daughter to realise, she's a great mum, build up herself esteem, maybe persuade her to talk to her GP who can suggest ways to help with feelings of depression? Then once they are both over the shock of what's happening they can look at how they can make it better for their family.

Can I start by saying that no evidence has been provided for any specific reason for this break-up, nor has unreasonable behaviour been cited or proven for either party. On that basis, posts on here which choose to criticise the departing husband are purely speculative, and based on unsubstantiated assumptions, which probably say more about the personal experiences of those who are sitting in judgement,rather than about the actual circumstances under discussion. At least he appears to be taking his paternal responsibilities seriously, which I can tell you from bitter, personal experience is a blessing, and is not always the norm. As for "what to do", from what has been described all I would advise is not to take sides, otherwise the children will suffer, and simply to "be there" to provide whatever emotional and practical support you can..

This man has decided, for whatever reason, to break up a marriage. He may still own a share in the property but it is no longer his home and he should not be treating it as so. So, I agree with those who have commented previously that he should not be just popping in whenever he feels like it, which just gives the impression he may come back. Maybe he will and they will sort out their relationship but, as the moment, he needs to collect the children at prearranged times and take them out or back to his parents' home where he is living.

I agree with the suggestion that they try counselling or RELATE. This does help both sides see the wood for the trees, if they would be willing to try it. To understand better what has gone wrong - and why - may or may not necessarily salvage the marriage.However, it may help with future communication between them - MUCH better where children are concerned - and mediation may ease the pain of any temporary or permanent separation.

And yes, there need to be boundaries drawn while things are being worked out. It is damaging for the children to be cared for by adults who cannot control their emotions and, worse, try to get them to take sides.

I so sympathise but noone has mentioned the other grandparents? They too must be suffering and wringing their hands like you. If relationships were cordial and even if a bit strained, when we went through this I took a deep breath picked up the phone and together we put aside any personal feelings of blame and put the kids at the centre of all our advice, providing a blameless safety blanket of united support. I'm happy to say all have come out of it very well, beloved son also strong and happy and still single, ex wife with new partner and from a point of huge pain and distress brilliant well adjusted grandkids! Keep strong.

Many years ago when I was very young with two girls I went through the same thing it was so distressing I too was depressed and on the edge( My husband wanted certain relations to carry on as normal if you get my meaning). I was terrified of being on my own and just longed for him to be there, but actually I had been on my own for a long time even when he had lived with me.
My advice as Bibbity (dont know how to make the name bold ) says above would be,for her own sanity, as hard as it is, to set out some ground rules and boundaries.This will give them both space to think.It doesn’t mean she has to give up on the idea of making it work but she must be at a place where she can think straight. She needs to feel in control. I only became strong once I said “ok you are adamant you have left so now we must move forward” I packed his stuff and set ground rules. It doesn’t have to be messy, we set rules in every walk of our life. My girls were better for it too they knew what was happening and that someone was in control.

Slowly I picked my live up went to university got a career and became a strong independent women and a better role model for my girls. As it was for me my husband never came back and was actually seeing another women even though he swore he wasn’t he left her too. Then I met my wonderful 2nd (late) husband life does get better. I wish her well.

suzi57
I feel for you. Our childrens' pain is our pain.The only advice I would give, having experienced similar, is tell your daughter you are there for her, and your grandchildren, one hundred percent.
This situation is between DD and SIL. Unsolicited advice can be seen as interference but then unless you really know your SIL you will need to tread carefully.

Ethelwulf
I had posted my comment before reading yours.
You have it in a nutshell.
It is human nature to protect our own but this is a mature relationship and a matter only for those expert in dealing with problems such as this.

20 years ago when my husband (who I loved very much) left me, I too was distraught. But he also 'kept me on the boil' He would let himself in, help himself to food and often turn up after a night out to spend the night. Desperate to get him back, I always welcomed him with open arms - the children were always happy to see him and so was I. It gave me hope that one day he would come back, and that he still loved me. Looking back though, it was actually quite cruel. It stopped me from moving on for a long time, and the hurt he caused was just prolonged. It would have much kinder of him to to make a definate break - like pulling off a plaster quickly. I do think he was meeting his own ends, but I think he also thought he was helping me and the kids, but he wasn't. In hindsight it caused untold damage and I wish I'd been stronger. Perhaps show your daughter a few of the excellent posts on here, to show her that she's not the only one who's been there. You sound like a lovely supportive mum. Hope it gets better x