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Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.TWO

(1001 Posts)
SparklyGrandma Mon 15-May-17 22:39:02

Dear celebgran eddiecat Yoga Norah Smileless I hope no one minds my starting a new thread as we had reached 1001 posts on thread ONE.

Here is wishing peace and healing, moving forward in positivity...

Smileless2012 Tue 30-May-17 19:34:58

There's something else about human nature Yogagirl which I find the most frightening of all. Some peoples propensity to believe what they want to believe. Even though all the evidence is stacked against them, even though any right minded person would know that they're believing in a falsehood; they still continue to believe.

Yogagirl Tue 30-May-17 17:26:54

Follow my post saying that I thought my estD was like a sponge, soaking up her nasty H & his M rotten personalities, I read a paper on 'Biology of human evil' just happened upon it, but the following was very appt;
Human nature is extraordinarily malleable, and I think that's the most defining thing about our nature.

celebgran Tue 30-May-17 16:24:07

I have to say that I managed ?Acquacise but have dozed ever since

We were v late to bed having got caught up with recordings of Corrie omg v gripping any soap watchers here?

Just to lighten load,

Norah did u get away?

My son got to Geneva eventually ?

celebgran Tue 30-May-17 16:21:29

Omg sparklygran ? that was just so awful and uncaring, i do tend to agree is there a way back from that?

Hope could your own son be so hard?

I realised early on my daughter was cruel and hard when her dad had nasty chest infection after about years estrangement I was so worried he is normally v fit, and he had time off work unheard of for him inwas so upset wrote to xxx complete silence,

I realised then with a shock that she just didn't care.

No normal daughter cuts off grandparents and parents they actually love,
Sadly she used us for all she could extract from us then dropped us.

Luckylegs9 Tue 30-May-17 14:39:59

Sorry, should have been, not put up with abuse.oops.

Luckylegs9 Tue 30-May-17 14:39:15

What about people that don't have family, then they are left alone when their spouse dies, but life eventually becomes worthwhile with support and love from those around them, friends. We are all valuable, we should put up with abuse because of a fear of being alone, in this I haven't wavered since I made the decision enough was enough. It's knowing when to admit defeat and that you no longer want that prize that you gave battled for, it has lost its lustre.

SparklyGrandma Tue 30-May-17 13:40:26

Lucklegs you are right - nothing to apologise for. And yes I did discover when I attended Marie Curie Day Clinic for 2 years that I was not alone, sadly.

Yogagirl thank you Smileless thank you. Bless you all.

I have forgiven my estDS and told him by email several years ago (no answer).

But that level of cruelty maybe it is better not to hope for a return to? I am sure it didn't help my treatment.

Lets hope none of us have the cruel words Yoga and others have heard, ever again. flowers.

Smileless2012 Tue 30-May-17 09:07:09

I love that saying Luckylegs, I'll have to remember that one. Even a feather duster has some uses but it seems that our EC have no use for us any longer.

Sparklyflowersthat was a very cruel thing to say. When our estrangement first happened I used to wonder if one of us became seriously ill, or was involved in a bad accident, if that would be our ES's 'wake up call'. I realised neither of those would make any difference when Mr. S. spent the day in hospital with a suspected heart attack. DS 'phoned him and told us he'd been shocked and upset at the news but he never contacted his father.

TBH I doubted that he'd even expressed any concern to his brother, I think our DS said he had to make the whole thing more palatable bless him. It's a reality check isn't it, you could be dying and they simply don't want to know.

For you to have come through your illness without the love and support you should have received from your ES is as sad as it is amazing. I'm glad you enjoyed your home cooked meal with your friend; isn't it good to be in the company of people who really care.

Yogagirl Tue 30-May-17 08:43:26

Sparklygran How awful! what a terrible thing for your Son to say flowers How can our AC be so cruel to their loving Mothers!

Luckylegs9 Tue 30-May-17 07:53:27

Sorry, if I offended by being too blunt Sparkly, for me I closed my eyes to accepting what I thought was unacceptable.? I still have difficulty.

Luckylegs9 Tue 30-May-17 05:37:33

Sparkly, that quite simply takes my breath away, he is not a nice person, to say you don't want cancer around his children, does anyone want it? A saying comes to mind, one day you're cock of the walk, next your a feather in someone's duster. I worked for years at a Cancer Support Centre, lots of people with no families, but they made friends and got the support to enjoy their new lives, I made a very good friend there, we were out last week together, she is fully recovered and enjoying life. Glad you enjoyed your day, with someone who genuine cares for you and wanted to be with you.? ?

SparklyGrandma Mon 29-May-17 23:14:25

flowers Yogagirl thank you.

There are some things that are hurtful that we cant come back from.

I had cancer treatment and 2 surgeries 6 years ago, Macmillan nurse rang my estDS but he told her it would never be convenient for them to visit me and he didnt want cancer around his children.

I was dreadfully ill for 3 years (I am ok now thought will always bear affects of treatment etc) and I can see now its might not be possible for me to ''get over'' that if reconciliation was ever offered.

celegran I think I know it will never be possible after I went through all of that - but also it will never be offered.

I had a lovely lunch with an old family friend today - doesn't a home feel more like a comfy home when you have cooked a roast dinner and had nice company over?

Have a nice week, fellow est Ladies flowers.

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 19:30:09

As for the court papers, they were already in the system at this time and I had received them back, stamped by the court with a letter saying I must hand them to estD & s.i.l, either myself or via a bailiff. I chose to hand them myself, as that would mean I would get to see my D & GC and maybe say something to her, to wake her up to what she was doing, not just to me and her sister [out by then] but also to her C, my GC. But when she was unresponsive, I then handed her the papers, really regret going down the court road now! This was 3months after the initial 'cut out'.

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 19:17:25

Brilliant post Smileless as always, brought a tear to my eye reading about your once beloved Son flowers, and of course the same applies to my once beloved D, why, oh why did they do it, I will never understand! As you rightly say, they use what we did after the cut out against us, yet before we just loved and cared for them, and thought they loved us back sad

Starlady & Celebgran Thank you flowers and yes I do remember C

Smileless2012 Mon 29-May-17 18:38:26

Yogagirlflowersyou'll never know if things would have been different had you not gone to court. My gut tells me it wouldn't have. There'd been a lot of nastiness before you reached that stage, so even if your ED and husbands' family did regard the court papers as antagonistic, that doesn't explain all that went on before.

It seems to be a common factor with this estrangement, our AC use our words and/or actions following the CO against us, but they don't accept that we'd already been CO so it's therefore irrelevant in their desperate self justification for the 'reasons' they give for C us O in the first place.

Well it's taken me 4 years as it 4 years ago that I bought a journal to write in and leave for our GC; now I'm writing it for 2, but today I began writing and it felt good. I decided to write it in my own hand because I think its more personal that way. It seems silly to refer to it as a memory box as we have so few memories of eldest GC, none of the youngest and of course they'll have none of us.

I have a lot of things in a box to sift through including the correspondence we've had with ES; all emails of course because he's always refused to talk to us and the recent posts on here have got me thinking.

They begin when our GC was just 6 weeks old, we were already picking up that something wasn't quite right and were desperate to sort things out. They provide a very sad and at times unsettling account of the deterioration of our relationship. I can't of course remember everything he's written to us but I still remember how terribly hurtful and cruel his words were, are and always will be; I still remember how those emails of his made us both feel then, feel now and more than likely will always make us feel.

There's a clear distinction, a strong juxtaposition between our emails to him and his to ours, it's really quite chilling. Yes, we've said things to him that we felt needed to be addressed, but only ever the truth; things that I'm sure he'd rather have not read, but never with nastiness and cruelty, always with love. I don't just say that because we loved him at the time of their writing, still do of course, but because we told him so, in every thing we ever wrote to him, we told him that we loved him.

Not once in all that correspondence is there a kind word for us, not a single one and that's saying something because his emails are long, pages and pages long.

You asked the other day Yogagirl how an AC whose destroyed their family can ever be welcomed back, I still don't have an answer for you but what I have realised today, without even reading those emails again, just by thinking of what they contain, is that I can never welcome back our ES.

Letting go of him is the hardest thing I've ever had to do but it's the only thing I can. Like you, we've imagined, believed that she was standing there behind him, telling him what to say, that that's why he wrote what he did. Even though we know he's written them because they contain the language he would use, they're written in his style, in a format that he, not she, would use we'd still tell ourselves it was all down to her.

But they weren't were they, they weren't all her and nothing from him. He typed them, sent them from his email account, he hit the send button and sent that verbal poison to his own parents. So that's why I can never welcome him back, not just because he's no longer the lovely young man he used to be but because of the man he's become.

celebgran Mon 29-May-17 17:09:08

Yogagirl we came close going coirtneven filled in all forms and theymwere returned as had altered the forms! Somehow we never did it, but I am sure my daughter was hell Bent on destroying me whatever we did, as starlady says don't beat yourself up over it,

Do you remember we asked the priest when a school football friend of my,daughter told us about second child he went to see her but didn't try dan help mediate we were very disappointed, at that term we had no idea if 2nd Grandchild girl or boy and I was so desperate to know.

Not anymore we have met it go and focus on those that we do have who love us please try do that yogagirl life is too short to keep banging agains brick wall,

Starlady Mon 29-May-17 12:35:31

Thanks for the flowers, Yoga!

Your post about estd checking on you brought tears to my eyes. It suggests that somewhere, underneath it all, she still does care.

But I'm a little confused about one thing. I thought she sent you that nasty message in a text or email or something. But now it sounds as if it was something she said in conversation with sil, his mom and nd. Maybe you're right then and it was just a comment made to please them. Still very cruel, but perhaps she didn't mean it?

"I do now think that if I hadn't given the court papers, with her having called the police to check on me, if only I had held back, maybe, just maybe, she would have woken up to the enormity of what she was doing to her mum and to her C!"

Maybe. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. But you were obviously at a low point in your life at that time & must have been rather desperate to see your gc if you served them with papers. Please don't beat yourself up about it.

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 10:01:13

I wonder if nasty H was actually in and hiding in the background, when I went round to give the papers [?]

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 09:55:56

Starlady flowers

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 09:51:14

I wrote to my Vicar to Sparklygran He said the same, that he couldn't help, as after their wedding they never came to church again, so he doesn't see them anymore.

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 09:48:01

Lovely post Smileless flowers
Sparklygran Fairydoll and Luckylegs too flowers

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 09:42:59

Thank you Celebgran flowers
And everyone else for your input & concern flowers

Yogagirl Mon 29-May-17 09:36:55

Fairydoll you are right about the influence of her nasty H & m.i.l. I think my estD is like a sponge, soaking up the personality of the person she is with, and in this case a very nasty H & his mother. I do think it was a thrown out comment to please them, my ND was the one that heard her say it, as she had 2 months more in their lives than me. If only she had met a nice kind person to marry!

A few days or so after this, I went out for a walk with my little dog, on coming home I found a policeman coming out of my next door neighbours house, learnt after that he asked her if my dog would go for him if he broke-in and she assured him she wouldn't. He came into mine, saying he wanted to chat, said "you must need a cuppa after your walk & I'll join you" I thought that was unusual, he than went on with small talk, " lovely house you have.....your ok though, are you?" kept saying the later, until finally he told me he had had a call from my estD, asking them to check on me as she feared I had done something to myself! So when he arrived with my car on the driveway and no answer to the door.....

Sounds like I'm defending my estD doesn't it hmm after saying such a terrible thing confused But it seems she was worried about me and even called the police to help!
It was after this that I gave her the court papers, I had to hand them to her and the same for her H [she took both] But still she would not talk to me and wouldn't let me hug the C. I had brought them their favourite giant milky buttons and tried to give them, but she throw them out on her pathway, I cried and held her hand and asked "please don't do this, I love you, I love Laila, I love Jack!" but she shut the door and ushered the C further inside.
I do now think that if I hadn't given the court papers, with her having called the police to check on me, if only I had held back, maybe, just maybe, she would have woken up to the enormity of what she was doing to her mum and to her C!

celebgran Mon 29-May-17 08:37:55

Oh dear Yogagirl i a so very sorry but to be so very cruel as to say hurry up and kill yourself please please just let her go!

There is no way back from from that.

I think deep down we 3 Smilelss you and me know that ourmestranged ones no longer care about us but sadly haven given birth for us it's never over,

Correct me if i am wrong, I wish I was

Yogagirl please listen to sparklygran focus on your nd please

We loved let it go when doing our Zumba acquacsie it was final song and meant so much to those of us sadly estranged

Yogagirl ?No mum deserves that,

As you all know my estranged daughter betrayed me very cruelly taking information I confided in Her about a breakdowns when my dad died suddenly well over 40 years ago and used it as a reason I was t good enough to see xxxxxxx then further cruelty bringing up my sufferings from depression our solicitor and gp reassured me but that she could have betrayed me so still hurts dreadfully,

Sorry but I explained that again so you don't only feel one with cruel daughter,

Starlady Mon 29-May-17 03:42:08

Yes, I agree with Luckylegs. Unless Yoga's estd was somehow physically forced to send that horrendous message at that time, I don't see how it could be forgiven. For me, that would be a point of no return.

Yoga, I'm so deeply, deeply sorry she said that.

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