Forgiveness

Thanks - but this was after 30-35 years! Things thawed out gradually.

It's good to hear of a happy ending tricia

Good ending than TriciaF, so very pleased for you

In a way it was good to go back to that time again because things have changed so much since then. It was so hard to make that decision, and the guilt lasted for ages. But E had been such a good father to them since they were small, when their own father didn't seem to care at all,and he was very hurt. I think he's over it now.
My son has changed too, he told me he knows now he was the Rebellious Son (ie the Prodigal Son) or after I wrote to him to apologise (he lives abroad.)And that there's nothing to forgive.

Gill

Watching Glastonbury, so good!

Tricia I'm sorry that mine and Yogirl's posts opened up an old wound for you and pleased that you are back in touch with your son.

My experience is not nearly as dreadful as some on here, and I feel heart sorry to read some of this. I have one person that I will never forgive; we had arranged a family holiday with our two young teens taking a friend each. Two days before, the mother of DD friend said she had decided not to let her daughter come on the holiday,her daughter, who we were very fond of, was distraught, and sobbing, and our daughter cried herself to sleep. This woman said that I looked down on her, and had taken her ex-husband's side in their divorce. All untrue, but as her daughter spend more time at her Father's home than with her Mother and her creepy, controlling new boyfriend, I did know her ex-husband more than I knew her. Harsh words were exchanged. She then proceeded to frighten her daughter, telling her that our house was being watched by her and boyfriend and they would know if she visited. She is a manipulative, cruel woman, has made a lot of people's lives miserable due to her whims and fancies and I will never, ever forgive her for what she did to my daughter, and to hers.

Oh dear TriciaF so sorry, must have been really heart-breaking for you Glad to hear it is all healed now. Did your son forgive you?

Smileless Did you get your bible back? If not, would you want it back? beings as it's been held by a women that set out and did destroy your family. I'm so sorry about your bible

Ok I see now, thanks.
Your 2 stories opened an old wound for me, not quite the same, as I was the wife who "caved in". I had been married to my 2nd husband for 12 years, when my younger son, aged 16, started to rebel against him. Constant battles, husband said " it's him or me". My son was 17 by then, wanted to go to his real Dad .Who by then had reformed.
I thought, husband and I need eachother, son is just starting out as an adult, no longer a little boy, let him go." and he went.
I was heartbroken for a while, he wouldn't talk to us for some time. But eventually he and E. made friends again. Now a married man with his own family TG.

Thank you Smileless

TriciaF Smileless explains our situation very well, I say 'our' as our stories are quite similar.
For years I did only blame him & his equally nasty mother, for sure he brainwashed my daughter into this estrangement. But like Smileless I had to concede after so many years, that if she loved us, as I thought she did, all she had to say to him was "NO!" just that one little word. She could have seen us with the children at my home, which used to be her and my granddaughters home too before he came on the scene, in fact for 6mnths it was his home too.

No man boy would ever have got me to hurt my little girl, my good kind gentle mother & sister, no matter what! What my daughter has done to the 3 people in the world that loved her more than anyone else, can never be undone, the clock can never be turned back. The special, loving bond I had with my precious GD is gone forever, even if we were reunited tomorrow, that special bond has been destroyed. If my once beloved daughter repeated "Sorry" till the cows came home, it would not change the damage!

I of course can't speak for Yogagirl Tricia but I've been asked that question before and so I thought I'd give you my perspective.

At the beginning of our estrangement and for some time, we blamed our ES's wife but there came a point where we, and I think it's the same for a lot of estranged parents, needed to accept that the person ultimately responsible for the estrangement is their own AC.

We meant and mean nothing to our ES's wife. We welcomed her into our family, gave her a job when she was unemployed and along with my brother invested a sizeable sum of money into the house where they continue to live to serve as the deposit.

They married abroad with only myself and Mr. S. present because at that time she'd cut her own parents out of her life; not totally, there was some contact but very little. We hired a limo on the wedding day as a surprise for her so she could arrive in style and I made her a gift of my bride's bible that I'd carried on my own wedding day. The list goes on and on but clearly, we don't and never did mean anything to her.

We did though, believe for more than 27 years that we meant something to our ES but that doesn't appear to be the case either. People have said that we don't know what his home life is like, how much pressure she put on him to cut us out and how miserable she makes him if he doesn't do what she wants. They're right of course, we have no idea.

Let's say for arguments sake that she, as we believe she did, made him choose 'it's me and your child (now children) or them'. Personally I would have never succumbed to that type of pressure and have refused to go along with it, but we're all different and I had no idea how weak our ES really is until now.

Why then didn't he write, text, email, 'phone or come round and say something like 'I'm sorry mum and dad but for the sake of my marriage and my family I can't see you or have anything to do with you anymore and you'll never be able to have contact with your GC'. God knows that would have been bad enough wouldn't it. Can anyone ever imagine their own child saying such a thing?

But that didn't happen with us, that wasn't enough for them. The lies started, and not just started being told, they'd already been lying, both of them, her more than him but him too. Then new lies were told, TBH if I put on here some of the things that were said about me, I doubt anyone would believe that such things could be said about a mother from the son she was so close too and the d.i.l. she'd done so much for.

You asked why Yogagirl blames her daughter and not her daughter's husband. Perhaps like us, she's come to that gut wrenching, heart breaking point of her estrangement where she can no longer tell herself that her ED is innocent in this horrible situation, that it's all the fault of her s.i.l.

It was only when we finally accepted that our ES doesn't want us in his life, wants nothing to do with us and never will, that we began to move on with our lives, quite literally as we moved away. It was only then that we began to heal.

Yogagirlyou and Celebgran were the first to welcome me to the estrangement thread, COOTL, more than 4 years ago and I can't ever remember reading a post from you like the one you've posted here.

I know and understand how much you've suffered and continue to suffer and I hope that by beginning to see your ED's culpability you'll begin to heal, as we have done.

Why do you blame her, Yogagirl, and not her husband? Maybe she caved in to pressure from him too easily, but that often happens in a marriage.

Please ignore brackets, thought I was putting in too many comas with 'me, her mum but now looks wrong with the brackets

Very interesting thread!

I will never forgive or forget what my once beloved & cherished daughter did to me [her mum], to her sister and to her toddler daughter, my precious granddaughter, never! She destroyed her birth family on a whim of her nasty husband & his mother, all down to jealousy. My precious granddaughter is not his child and I worry hourly about how she is being treated by him & his mother. When I read Ramblyingrose's post, it made me think of her, as I think this is what my GD will be enduring, as my son-in-law & his mother are pathological liars!

If my daughter had come back, even 18mnths after cutting us all out for no reason, I would have forgiven, but almost 5yrs on, too much damage that can ever be repaired now!

Thank you for starting this thread MissAdventure. It was upsetting to read some of the posts, to read about how others have been hurt by those they love and trusted but also encouraging to read about how so many have managed to move on with their lives.

At the beginning of our estrangement I never thought about forgiveness, all I wanted was for him to come back and I suppose I assumed that forgiving him would be natural and effortless. Even his cruel lies seemed to be something that could be compartmentalised, frozen in time, regarded as 'said in the moment' because he was so angry although goodness knows why.

But as the months turned into years and once the vile emails had stopped arriving and the silence was deafening, I became to realise the damage that he'd done to our relationship was so great that there was little chance of it ever being repaired and even if it were, it could never be the same.

So often, estranged parents are reminded that a parents' love for their child is unconditional and I think that's because if EP's talk about their inability to forgive it's mistakenly assumed that their love for their AC isn't unconditional but of course it is.

I will love our ES until the day I die, whether or not I'm ever able to forgive him.

Ah, smileless, I originally wondered what would happen if an estranged grown up child decided to make contact again. I didn't want to directly ask, for fear of the usual "advice" and "suggestions" that crop up time and again. Thanks for answering.

I don't know what I'd do or how I'd feel if our ES came to us and sincerely apologised for cutting us out of his and our only GC's lives and for the terrible lies he's told and allowed to be told.

I'm not sure if I'd believe him and if I did, I don't know if I'd ever be able to forgive but I like to think I'd spend the rest of my life trying to do so. I can't imagine ever having much of relationship with him though as the enormity of his betrayal means I could never trust him again.

The last almost 5 years have shown me that moving on and forgiveness are not linked. We moved 7 months ago and are living and enjoying this new chapter in our lives. We've moved on but forgiveness has not been sought so none has been given.

Yes, as starlady says, lots of painful memories for people. It wasn't my intention, but thanks all

Thankyou Starlady - much appreciated.

So much pain in this thread! So sorry! (((Hugs))) to everyone!

Izzy, I was thinking "mental illness," too, as I read your post. I know not all mentally ill people hurt others, but something may have changed in your sister's mind for her to change so suddenly and so drastically.

Caroline, so sorry for your losses, both of your mum, and, in another way, your other close family members. Hate to say it, but could it be they (selfishly) just can't deal with your health & financial issues? My heart aches for you, no matter what.

Skweek, how awful your x caused such damage. Some things one can't come back from.

I think it is very sad not to believe in friendship anymore

One of my friend once stole my car and he didn't know about the GPS installation.The outcome was obvious. I forgive him but law did not. He is very poor and did that for money. That day I forgive him but made a promise to self that I will not make any more close friends. I don't belief in institution of friendship anymore.

THANKSSTARLADY but its not in my nature t hold grudges so me not being able to forgive him makes ME feel bad.I know that the psycological tests MUST have shown he was in a bad place when he did it I just cant get my head around the fact he'd do it to someone he considered a friend.To be honest I dont understaNd why he would set fire to ANY business...but I still wish I could say I dont blame you when I consider how you were feeling at the time.I cant though ,when I saw him it brouugt back a whole series of bad memories .Me walking the floor at 3am IN CASE he carried out his threat...and that was for months not just once .My daughter having her photo taken for Brownies and only whhen I saw it realising she was underweight and drawn and worried looking...I cant get past that ,maybe I should have therapy,the thing iis I THOUGHT I'd dealt with it and it wa sin the past ...until I walked into him in March

"I think moving on whilst knowing that person will no longer have any input in your life is a reasonable, non damaging thing to do?"

Agreed.

I'm another one who can forgive easier than I forget. Especially if trust has been broken, I generally feel I need to remember to protect myself in case of a repeat performance.

I also worry about the other person's thinking their behavior was ok just because I forgive it. I might let go of hate in my heart for my own sake. But I'm wary of forgiving outwardly unless I see true remorse.