Support for Grans cut-out of AC&GC lives

Hello everyone. I haven't been on here for a long time, but I'm estranged from my daughter and granddaughters for nearly ten years. During this time I've done a lot of research on this very sad situation and know that this isn't my daughter how I remember her, but my son in law who had narcissistic issues. I've been ostracized, had the silent treatment, police called to me for simply waving at the girls , smear campaigns etc. I know that s he has been insidiously abused in an attempt to turn her against me. It happens very slowly and cleverly right from the start, until our offspring (son/daughter) don't realize what's happening but they begin to feel unsure of themselves and their beliefs. The idea is to make them totally dependent on the abuser. They then are under the abuser's control. They may have been threatened with either "it's your parents or your children, you choose". This is narcissistic abuse. I've stayed away now, as I believe that any attempt by me (us) makes matters worse, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. In order to survive and keep the peace our daughters have to do whatever it takes to maintain equilibrium, or they have to face the consequences from these people. No one can take away our love however hard they try, so we have to leave well alone but leave the door open, for the time our daughter comes back to us. Please don't think badly of your daughter, think nice loving thoughts. This will not go on forever. My brother was a narcissist and for many years was trying to convince me that I was mentally unstable. This is another common characteristic of these disordered people, but he was very convincing, until I woke up to what was happening. I suggest you read Joe carver psychologist and Melanie Tonia Evans to really understand what our families are going through. Stay strong all of you. They will come back. Hugs

Maddyone, I am so sorry that things are so bad again between your DD and you are unable to see your gc. I know where you are coming from, you can't do right for doing wrong. After years of hot, cold treatment and emotional abuse, I had to distance myself. Unless you have suffered the constant trauma of living on a knife edge, you no one really understands, you have to reclaim your life back. I long for what I had once whilst knowing I can never have that again, like Smileless said, how can you trust again. Our children have minds of their own and I know for certain, no one could made my d do what she doesn't want to. I just wish I could believe my d is happy with the situation, but know realistically she can't be. It is all so pointless.

Imo, Smileless is right, toxicity IS karma in a sense. It's not always something that happens "later," as we usually think of karma. These toxic people are living their karma, even as they, unfortunately, hurt others.

No, I'm not estranged, Lukcylegs. I've said that before. But I wasn't giving advice in my last post, just expressing reactions and mostly, asking questions.

I've been thinking about these ranting phone calls, ladies. I can hardly imagine how much that must hurt coming from one's ds or dd. It occurs to me, though, that one should end those conversations quickly, letting ds or dd know that one won't be treated like that or would rather talk to them when they're calmer. But yes, Lucky is right, I'm not estranged, so Idk what I would actually do if that happened to me.

"I do believe that people who are so toxic that they can't possibly live a happy fulfilled life" well I think that's Karma molly. I'm so sorry for your pain and the pain of your youngest boys.

I used to think our ES was an angel and yet she still managed to turn him and being able to do so just shows that he never was the angel I believed him to be.

Hi Maddy thank you for your welcome. Everything you say in your messages about ranting phone calls is exactly what I've been through. All powered by my DIL and her family who have successfully managed to twist my sons mind so that he has hurt us beyond words . Sadly my son is no angel so it didn't take much . I feel your grief it is agony . I'm told by my family and close friends Karma is coming to them but I don't believe in all that .. I do believe that people who are so toxic that they can't possibly live a happy fulfilled life .. Maybe I'm wrong wrong but I that's how I feel.. I have so much anger in me towards my son and DIL and her family that it eats me up.. They have broke my heart but worse of all they broke my 2 youngest sons hearts they are 14 and it kills me to see them suffer . And my beautiful GS he was our life for those 2 1/2 years . The thought of him brings me to tears .. I feel all your pain on here it is bloody torture for us all.. Xx

Star lady, you often give advice on here, but are you estranged? Your replies would indicate to me you are not. I do think unless you have experienced it, it is impossible to imagine yourself in that position.

So sorry, maddy! I don't see how d heard your requests for visits as a of lack of interest in her family??? Or was she saying, "No, you can't see us because you favor my b and his family?" Either way, I don't see how she can hate an innocent child.

I'm afraid I don't quite understand this paragraph though:

"I don't think I'll be seeing my beloved twins any time soon, apparently our little sweetheart asked our daughter if his grandad is dead?!?! Why did she tell us, was it to hurt us? But the one who is hurting most is our darling little boy, and his sweetie twin sister. I love them so much."

Is it gs who asked if his gf was dead? Why would he think that? It must have hurt when dil told you that. But why do you think it means ds' family will be seeing you less often? I'm sorry, but I don't get what happened here.

PS I hope so annsixty I really do.

Such a lovely post MesMopTop; thank you.

I'm so sorry that things haven't remained positive with your D maddy. As you say, at least she did the right thing by your mum but such a shame that she can't do the same for the rest of her family.

This is why I have no desire to see our ES or communicate with him in any way; is it any wonder that we question whether or not we'd ever be able to trust them again?

I think you and Yogagirl are right in thinking that she was being wound up by her husband; that's been the case with our ES prior to the vile emails he used to send. Thank goodness we don't have to put up with that crap any more.

I admire your husband maddy and must say our ES wouldn't be given the opportunity to spew his venom over the 'phone because I'd hang up on him. I sure Mr. S. would have done the same as Mr. M. and allowed himself to be subjected to the abuse.

You know Celeb, you're just tired out; physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted and no wonder with all that you've been through this year. maddy's right about the medication, it does take time to get into your system so stick with it and I'm sure by the time we get to Christmas you'll be feeling loads better and able to enjoy a lovely time with your DS and his fiance.

Oh maddyone what a lovely lady you are to take trouble to mention us all.

I am so pleased youmhad wonderful cruise.
Thanks so much for sharing your anti depressant informations I am perservering with it all week and Nurse gave me 14 Valium if I get too desperate and they really help to calm me. Only taken one day.

Last night I slept better and managed go out for drinks with v old friends at our club I didn't want to go did youmfeel like that? But I was so glad I did.

My eye check went very well too.

Oh maddyone I am so very sorry you had those phone calls it reminds me of last time our daughter rang she said she missed me, but I was apparently i need of help, and nothing I said or my husband said could swerve her we were the villains it was so very sad I just was so thrilled when she rang and it went so very wrong.

We had taken fressias and left them on step for her and she rang to thank us so surely she had doubts about cutting us off? However we visited next day she refused let us in I was crying on doorstep eventuallymshenet us in but was last time very sad memories 9 years ago next march she cruelly let me make date to visit as normally did then we got the cut off letter,

Sorry I rambled one I pray things settle maddyone I wish I could advise please just don't say anything to inflame things thank goodness your dh kept calm.

It's so sad and unnecessary as have said so often,
I long to tell my daughter how ill I am but my dh said it will damage me further if get no response.

Hranks again maddyone for helping me feel more positive over medication, xx

Maddy I feel so sorry for your other GS, to think that sweet little boy, that is loved so by you all, is hated by his auntie, it's a horrible picture. Does your Son know this?

Anyone who uses children to hurt others and in the process hurts the children is beyond contempt and they will surely reap the consequences one day.

Oh Maddy so sorry it hasn't changed for you with your D I had the same thing with my D, got a call during the day, she just ranted at me, I didn't say one word, she then put the phone down. That night I got another, this time I managed to correct her on a few twisted stories & I hoped that some of what I had said hit home. But 5yrs down the line, obviously not.

You know what I think those calls were about, I think our Ds, having their darling husband bombard them with hate & poison against their Mothers that they did love, just made them have a brainstorm resulting in those ranting phone calls

Sadly our daughter has not changed, she did the right thing over her Nana's birthday, but it was all an act. I'm still pleased she did, because it was the right thing to do, to attend her grandmother's birthday celebration. That's how we brought them up, family loyalty and love. I didn't bank on her marrying a person totally devoid of such values, or on her having some of the elements of her Auntie's mental health problems, though of course, that is genetic.

Last night she phoned her Dad, and spent 45 minutes shouting down the phone at him. Her problem? We had asked her every day since we returned, if she could visit, or we visit her. She somehow turned those loving requests into we don't care about her or the children, we are not interested in her or the children, we are not interested in the new baby (only seen him three times, because she refused us any more access) and that we prefer her brother and his child. She told us she hates her brother's child! This phone call was followed by a second call from her husband, who was for 35 minutes berating us, and echoing the same paranoid sentiments. How my husband maintained his calm is beyond me, but he did, but he did refute every allegation with truth.

I'll say a bit more about it later but for now I'll leave it. Our son's little boy (the one she hates) has been here overnight, my husband is giving him breakfast, so I must go to sort out his clothes now.

I don't think I'll be seeing my beloved twins any time soon, apparently our little sweetheart asked our daughter if his grandad is dead?!?! Why did she tell us, was it to hurt us? But the one who is hurting most is our darling little boy, and his sweetie twin sister. I love them so much.

Maddy thank you for your kind words, nice of you to take the time mention us all. Lovely to hear about your cruise & forgetting all your worries. Makes me remember my first holiday/yoga retreat, after the cut out, it did make me feel better & take my mind off things, but when I got on the plane home, I cried, had to keep my face looking out the window so no one could see, I was so desperately unhappy!

Definitely this estrangement causing health problems. I have always been very healthy [touch wood] but in the first year of my grieving for my beloveds, I thought I had a brain tumour, cancer, heart probs, going from never visiting the doctors, to going all the time, it must show up on my records that something was seriously wrong in my life, which it was I'm ok now, apart from that awful vertigo which lasted a record 11 weeks!

Sparklygranyou say it's years since your estrangement now, but the pain doesn't go away. Oh that it would, how wonderful that would be.

Smileless what a difficult time you've been having, your little dog, your computer, your son's divorce; but it's so good that your son is coming over for Christmas, it won't be long till the 17th now.

Luckylegs I was so pleased to read you're going to spend Christmas with your son. This time of year must be particularly difficult as along with the estrangement, your husband died in December. So many sad memories at this time.

Hello again everyone, well I have read all your posts since I went away and updated myself with how things are with you all.

Forstly, welcome molly, I'm so sorry about your terrible situation, thankfully you have found this thread where everyone has family problems and estrangement, and you will find the most caring support here. It's sad that we need a thread like this, but we do, and it helps.

I made a few notes last night as I read through all your posts, just so I can say something to you all. I was struck by the many posts saying what a difficult time of year this is for us all, many unhappy anniversary dates, plus Christmas, we're now in the Christmas month.

I will say Mr M and me had a wonderful holiday, we visited five different Far East countries, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, and Singapore. It did us both the world of good, new places, new friends on ship, and far away from our troubles. We came back refreshed and positive, sadly that that has been wiped away in less than a week, but more of that later.

yogagirl what beautiful children! You must have been so proud of them, and loved them so much. Your sadness is coming through so strongly in all your posts, I feel for you so much. You were so hopeful for our reconciliation after our daughter behaved so nicely on her Nana's birthday, but it is not to be.

Rhinestone you are having such a difficult time just now, I think like the others, your illness is most likely to be stress. Maybe councilling would help, or some yoga or other relaxing activity. I realise it sounds so trite, because nothing will ever remove the grief. It's just as if someone has died, but worse really, because we know they haven't. You ask me (way back just as I was off on the cruise) if we offered to babysit. Yes we did, and to help in any way we could, and used to do before, we did so much, maybe that's the problem, we did too much. I suspect many of us may have done that. The trouble for us is our over controlling SIL doesn't like people, can't cope with family life at all (had a very restricted family himself, only child of overly doting mother, and little or no contact with wider family) and to top it all, both my daughter and SIL are very jealous of our son and his child.

Celebyou have had a very bad year, and reading your posts I see how you are struggling. You ask me about my antidepressants, I've been on them for years, but recently had to increase the dose, and it has helped. I was in a marvellous state of mind when I returned, but our daughter and DIL have made sure this week that I'm no longer feeling so good. But celeb I'm in a better place than I was, with the increased dosage, so I would say stick with it, it takes 2-4 weeks to start to feel better, but it truly does help. If the side effects are just too bad, your doctor could try a different drug, but believe me, they do work.
The photo of you with your family is lovely, you all look happy together, and yes, your son looks like you.

Hi celebgran it is very tough. I'm just struggling through every day trying to get to the next .. Yes sometimes you need a little help and that's OK . When you get to that point when it's eating you up it's time to reach out.. Poor girl I hope she is receiving support also . I hope you have a better day today xx

Molly43 sorry went too quick wanted to thank our for understanding. I hope u well at moment

Our cleaner only young girl gave me big hug a and said she suffers depression too! Like me started when 17 bless her a lovely girl

Molly43?Tough is t it?

I have t needed any help for 16 years but guess his year been too much.

Thanks yogagirl and mollie43. It's definitely losing Rosie been last straw!

I will just have persevere with meds and hope for best,
Did sleep better.
Physio class was very good today. Used could machines then did Pilates,
Also had nice chat with my sister think of positives.
Thanks kind poster if only we could all have miracle.
My sister asked if I had got photos, of xxxxxx sadly no,

Celebgran No doubt the op you have been through has brought you down & of course the time of year, just look forward to Xmas with your DS

Lovely to hear you are spending Xmas with your Son luckylegs xx

Thank you sooo much MesMopTop your message brought a lump to my throat, such kind words, if only.. God Bless you xx

If I could have one Christmas miracle, it would be for all the estranged parents, children and grandchildren to reconcile. I've read that it has happened to some therefore it can also happen to the others. That's what I'm wishing xxx