Adult children

Also, you say they like to check with each other before they decide if they're coming for Christmas or not. Does that mean they will only come if one or both of their siblings are there? Does this always happen or only on Christmas?

Could it be they just want to coordinate things so that they don't have to make separate dates with their siblings? Since they probably also want/are expected to see their ils/partner's relatives and friends, etc., their Christmas schedules may be quite full. They may just be trying to lower the number of dates they have to make by seeing to it that they visit with you and your other ac at the same time.

Are you flexible about the date? That might make it easier.

But does this mean that they refuse to come if they and their siblings can't all be there at the same time? That's hard to take, I can imagine. Is there some reason they're uncomfortable being with you and dh alone? Are there some unresolved tensions between you? You seem to respect their independence and that's great, but is there some "issue" that's causing a problem? Can you fix it?

If not, then I think you should just be ready to roll with the punches this Christmas. Maybe be willing to get together the weekend before, for example, if that's the only time all your ac can come. Or perhaps two weeks after. Have a backup plan or something if plans get changed (like a movie you both want to see). Just a couple of ideas, hope they work for you. Hope you have a Happy Christmas, no matter what.

Bella, I feel for you, too. It must feel as if you and dh are after-thoughts, if that. I'm so sorry.

I'm most concerned with your dd (dear daughter). Why is she so dominated by her ils? I don't doubt she cares about her relationship with you, I just think she needs to set limits with her ils. I'll bet she's as frustrated by this situation as you are. Do you know if she has talked to your sil (son-in-law) about this?

As for the ds (dear son) whose gf changes the appointments, could the problem be between them? Maybe they each make plans without consulting the other, and that's why things end up being changed or canceled? In the future, I would give ds a few dates & times and then ask him to go over it with gf and get back to you. Or ask him to consult with her and come up with some dates & times for you and dh to choose from. Then see what happens.

Idk what I think about your other ds since you don't say much about him. I guess he's the one whose gf has "a baby of her own," is that right? That may mean they have to set aside time not only for her relatives, but also the baby's dad and, maybe, some of his relatives, as well as you and dh. Perhaps that's why you're getting less time with them than you like?... Just a thought...

Also, some people find it stressful to travel with a baby or toddler or to entertain anyone in their home. Things may get better as these babies get older, as Seaside22 suggests.

Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom and your own stories. Yes, I understand that they have their own lives and that, in time grandchildren will distance themselves too ( sad as it is). We do enjoy being on our own together, but feel like the ties that bind us as a family are so loose that, despite not overcrowding them, and just trying to keep some contact between us all, it is just not worth bothering as it seems like we are the only ones that care about being an adult family ( parents and adult children, that we thought we would be able to talk to as adults). I don't blame the partners- I completely respect that they have their own mothers, and family, it's just that there isn't room for us and we don't know what our role/place is other than to lend money and help when they need it. We have made one son's partner welcome, and the other we have only met once, but the meeting went very well, I thought. But she has a baby of her own, so there is not that connection between us. When we try to do things for ourselves, sometimes we have to change plans because otherwise we wouldn't see them or the grandchildren. It's an awkward situation. Thanks again for your insights, much appreciated.

I’d distance yourself from all your children a little bit and just aim for get togethers on special occasions such as your and you partner’s birthdays. Then you can arrange to invite them all round together (which you mentioned they enjoy) for a meal or similar. Then perhaps Christmas next year?

Children do grow away from parents as they have families of their own and while some are more inclusive than others, you are going to have to accept that you are not that important in their lives any more.

Grandchildren are the same. No matter how much Nana & Pops meant to them when they were young, as they hit their teens they have friends, hobbies and other places they’d rather be. Sad, but a fact of life.

Let go and enjoy your own lives and perhaps not be quite so contactable when they want money. I do sympathise ?

I wouldn't be too quick to blame the partners ,Iknow a few parents who wouldn't see thier kids if it wasn't for the partners ...one who tells her huband to phone his mum,one who insists time is divided equally between the families at Christmas ,even though it means dragging young children round three houses on Christmas day and her partner would rather stay at home.If your boys are both cutting back on visits could it be they feel their partners aren't welcome in yur home.Maybe you need to bypass the men and contact the women....who generally are the ones who make arrangements,give them a choice of days and ask them to co ordinate with the other siblings partners .They might be happy to work out details...they may not know you think theres a problem.Whatever happens,have a good Christmas and a great 2018

Oh I do feel for you Bella2.These adult children don't know how much you love and miss them they are taking you for granted, they seem to be so self absorbed and precious these days.Our eldest son lives 5 minutes away from us and has gradually withdrawn himself from us, we only see him now when he needs us to babysit, maybe five or six times a year, I am gradually getting used to it, but feel very used, his wife nevery comes to drop off our granddaughter but she does come on Christmas day for a couple of hours.I don't know what the answer is, but hopefully with your son things may change for the better when the baby gets older and they need a break.I do hope so .

Things do change when adult children have their own families, and if you think about it, it is just as well that they start to distance themselves from us, because we will not always be there, much as we don't want to think about that.

Our children's in laws, are in the main, much more forceful about things like Christmas than we are, and we are o.k. with that, we are lucky in that we enjoy being on our own together.

Money is so often mentioned in posts like yours, but I doubt that that is the only reason that your children contact you, it is more likely that they just have their own concerns at this time in their lives, and they know they can take your love for granted, which I am sure that they can.

Try to enjoy your Christmas in your own way, eating what you like, with no pressure to entertain, and not as a day to be dreaded.

Oh dear - so sorry to hear about your family troubles. I have no experience of this situation but my initial reaction is to recommend that you and your husband make a life for yourselves that doesn't include your children. If you act like you don't need them maybe they will come back into your life?
I hope this is helpful.