Adult children

Oh dear - so sorry to hear about your family troubles. I have no experience of this situation but my initial reaction is to recommend that you and your husband make a life for yourselves that doesn't include your children. If you act like you don't need them maybe they will come back into your life?
I hope this is helpful.

Things do change when adult children have their own families, and if you think about it, it is just as well that they start to distance themselves from us, because we will not always be there, much as we don't want to think about that.

Our children's in laws, are in the main, much more forceful about things like Christmas than we are, and we are o.k. with that, we are lucky in that we enjoy being on our own together.

Money is so often mentioned in posts like yours, but I doubt that that is the only reason that your children contact you, it is more likely that they just have their own concerns at this time in their lives, and they know they can take your love for granted, which I am sure that they can.

Try to enjoy your Christmas in your own way, eating what you like, with no pressure to entertain, and not as a day to be dreaded.

Oh I do feel for you Bella2.These adult children don't know how much you love and miss them they are taking you for granted, they seem to be so self absorbed and precious these days.Our eldest son lives 5 minutes away from us and has gradually withdrawn himself from us, we only see him now when he needs us to babysit, maybe five or six times a year, I am gradually getting used to it, but feel very used, his wife nevery comes to drop off our granddaughter but she does come on Christmas day for a couple of hours.I don't know what the answer is, but hopefully with your son things may change for the better when the baby gets older and they need a break.I do hope so .

I wouldn't be too quick to blame the partners ,Iknow a few parents who wouldn't see thier kids if it wasn't for the partners ...one who tells her huband to phone his mum,one who insists time is divided equally between the families at Christmas ,even though it means dragging young children round three houses on Christmas day and her partner would rather stay at home.If your boys are both cutting back on visits could it be they feel their partners aren't welcome in yur home.Maybe you need to bypass the men and contact the women....who generally are the ones who make arrangements,give them a choice of days and ask them to co ordinate with the other siblings partners .They might be happy to work out details...they may not know you think theres a problem.Whatever happens,have a good Christmas and a great 2018

I’d distance yourself from all your children a little bit and just aim for get togethers on special occasions such as your and you partner’s birthdays. Then you can arrange to invite them all round together (which you mentioned they enjoy) for a meal or similar. Then perhaps Christmas next year?

Children do grow away from parents as they have families of their own and while some are more inclusive than others, you are going to have to accept that you are not that important in their lives any more.

Grandchildren are the same. No matter how much Nana & Pops meant to them when they were young, as they hit their teens they have friends, hobbies and other places they’d rather be. Sad, but a fact of life.

Let go and enjoy your own lives and perhaps not be quite so contactable when they want money. I do sympathise ?

Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom and your own stories. Yes, I understand that they have their own lives and that, in time grandchildren will distance themselves too ( sad as it is). We do enjoy being on our own together, but feel like the ties that bind us as a family are so loose that, despite not overcrowding them, and just trying to keep some contact between us all, it is just not worth bothering as it seems like we are the only ones that care about being an adult family ( parents and adult children, that we thought we would be able to talk to as adults). I don't blame the partners- I completely respect that they have their own mothers, and family, it's just that there isn't room for us and we don't know what our role/place is other than to lend money and help when they need it. We have made one son's partner welcome, and the other we have only met once, but the meeting went very well, I thought. But she has a baby of her own, so there is not that connection between us. When we try to do things for ourselves, sometimes we have to change plans because otherwise we wouldn't see them or the grandchildren. It's an awkward situation. Thanks again for your insights, much appreciated.

Bella, I feel for you, too. It must feel as if you and dh are after-thoughts, if that. I'm so sorry.

I'm most concerned with your dd (dear daughter). Why is she so dominated by her ils? I don't doubt she cares about her relationship with you, I just think she needs to set limits with her ils. I'll bet she's as frustrated by this situation as you are. Do you know if she has talked to your sil (son-in-law) about this?

As for the ds (dear son) whose gf changes the appointments, could the problem be between them? Maybe they each make plans without consulting the other, and that's why things end up being changed or canceled? In the future, I would give ds a few dates & times and then ask him to go over it with gf and get back to you. Or ask him to consult with her and come up with some dates & times for you and dh to choose from. Then see what happens.

Idk what I think about your other ds since you don't say much about him. I guess he's the one whose gf has "a baby of her own," is that right? That may mean they have to set aside time not only for her relatives, but also the baby's dad and, maybe, some of his relatives, as well as you and dh. Perhaps that's why you're getting less time with them than you like?... Just a thought...

Also, some people find it stressful to travel with a baby or toddler or to entertain anyone in their home. Things may get better as these babies get older, as Seaside22 suggests.

Also, you say they like to check with each other before they decide if they're coming for Christmas or not. Does that mean they will only come if one or both of their siblings are there? Does this always happen or only on Christmas?

Could it be they just want to coordinate things so that they don't have to make separate dates with their siblings? Since they probably also want/are expected to see their ils/partner's relatives and friends, etc., their Christmas schedules may be quite full. They may just be trying to lower the number of dates they have to make by seeing to it that they visit with you and your other ac at the same time.

Are you flexible about the date? That might make it easier.

But does this mean that they refuse to come if they and their siblings can't all be there at the same time? That's hard to take, I can imagine. Is there some reason they're uncomfortable being with you and dh alone? Are there some unresolved tensions between you? You seem to respect their independence and that's great, but is there some "issue" that's causing a problem? Can you fix it?

If not, then I think you should just be ready to roll with the punches this Christmas. Maybe be willing to get together the weekend before, for example, if that's the only time all your ac can come. Or perhaps two weeks after. Have a backup plan or something if plans get changed (like a movie you both want to see). Just a couple of ideas, hope they work for you. Hope you have a Happy Christmas, no matter what.

The only comment I would make is to stop lending your children money.
Why would you?

Our solution is to get away for a sunshine holiday.

Bank of mum and dad, when do we go to the bank? when we need money. If you have allowed that pattern to happen then they will come when they need money and won't come when they don't because they will feel beholden.

Done it myself and its not easy to get back onto an easy path afterwards.

I also find that young people have busy social lives with their friends tobe keeping up with (sometimes the reason they need to borrow money) don't wait for them to decide when they are coming, invite them all and if they want to don't come, just do something else to suit yourself.

bella please don’t take this the wrong way, but your reply was contradictory. You say there’s no room in their lives for you and then you say you have to change your own plans if you want to see your grandchildren. Why is that? Do they suddenly spring plans to visit you? If so then great! Seize the moment.

Then you say the first time meet up with your son’s partner went well, but you didn’t really connect as ‘she has a baby of her own’. I don’t see what that means.

You do have contact so enjoy that time. I think it’s the Christmas issue that’s the real problem for you just now. Just tell them you need an answer so you can plan accordingly. Be firm.

Bella2 thanks for sharing. I think it is a long haul. I have been in despair tried to fix in as many ways humans can imagine and then you get to accept it. A bit like a grieving process. The shock the denial the anger the sadness then the acceptance but not because they are dead it has to be an acceptance that things might get better in the future. Of course hanging on to this hope means you are still open to hurt.
All our stories are different. Mine is better and worse. I don’t have a husband, if I offer money it is refused. Grandot#1 is autistic but no one speaks of it. My son does allow me to send money to his bank account for speech therapy. His wife will not visit my house so I rarely see them and yet they do spend Xmas day with me at my daughters who says she only invites them for my sake. Isn’t it strange.
?
So back to you. I’m just totally with you. I think your attitude and behaviour is exemplary. So thank your lucky stars you have a partner. Shrug roll your eyes and drink a toast to your success in raising independent children. Cheers

Bella2
I feel for you and believe many of us have kids who take us for granted .Being there for them at the drop of a hat providing money as none of us want to see our kids having financial problems can make a rod for our own back and do they think any better of you ?Much as you would like to see your family over Xmas ASK them their intentions don't pussyfoot around them as if you are not to be included in their arrangements then go do your own thing you have a life and they should respect this.
I hope you sort this out as you are not to be picked up and put down to suit others.

Does your daughter live near enough for you to pop in like the in laws do? And/or meet for a quick coffee somewhere during the day? Let her know that you miss her and understand that she is busy, so if she cannot get to see you, you will go to her. Just keep it casual, no criticism, just light hearted conversations and a hug.
If they owe you money that is another thing that can come between your relationships. If they struggle to pay you back they might feel awkward about visiting. Can you formalise it and make sure they are all treated equally? When one of my sons needed a substantial amount I drew up an agreement and he set up a standing order to pay me back.
I think it's great that they see each other, not all siblings get on.
Sadly, many children assume that we will live forever, and only when we pass on do they realise that they've missed their chance.

It must be heartbreaking to think that your children don't want to spend time with you. I tried to think what I might do in your situation. Next year, or even this year, you still have time, just book a holiday for yourself and your husband over
the Christmas period and then a month or so before Christmas just tell them that you decided to go on holiday this year. Wishing you well whatever happens.

I think it's just the way it is. I only have one child, a daughter. We have always done everything together - days out, theatre trips etc. Then when my granddaughter came along, it was the three of us doing stuff. Now my granddaughter is a teenager (although we still see a lot of her) it has tailed off. My daughter prefers to be with her friends and is very wrapped up in her daughter's life. I used to get very upset over it, but that didn't help the situation. It's sad but at least we see them. Only once have they spent Christmas Day with us over the last 20 years or so, they prefer to do their own thing but they do come to us Boxing Night every year. Try to go with the flow. I know it's not easy.

Do not have expectations then you will not be disappointed, young people have such busy lives that parents slip down the priority list.

What a kind and positive message and I do wholeheartedly agree ?

Tell them you're doing a buffet/meal Christmas eve/morning/night and it would be lovely to see them. It's up to them then and takes the pressure off

Exactly harrigran we do slip down the list and I think it is a natural thing. Just at the moment you have one son with new baby, another with young baby and a distracted daughter. I don't see why you have to wait for them to sort something out over Christmas, could you host lunch on Boxing Day or New Year's day I have got a feeling they can't think straight with babies everywhere! Poor daughter, perhaps suggest a particular morning or afternoon you could meet and keep it light. Her MIL obviously isn't on GN or she would know not to pop in uninvited.

So difficult for you. I am lucky not to have this problem - all DDs and I see/hear from them often; and am also involved in child care with the local ones.

I wonder if the fact that I am actually very busy is a positive factor here - being a school governor, running singing events, singing in a choir, running the village library etc. etc. In other words they know that I have a life outside of seeing them, so maybe they feel less under pressure to make contact and visit.

Just a thought - or maybe it is just the luck of the draw.

I am sorry that this is a problem in your life and hope that you have a merry Christmas whoever you are with.

My brother and I were discussing this subject the other day and lamenting that now the boot is on the other foot, we realise that we did the same to our parents.
If only I could have my dear Mum back again to tell her how sorry I am that I was careless about her love. Too bloody late

My children do love us and I know that if we needed them they would help in an instance, but the truth is we are no longer the most important people in their lives. If you go on Mumsnet you see posts and you know that they have no idea about certain relationships. They are being careless as well.
The song by Rod Stewart which goes ? If only I knew then what I do now, when I was younger' is so true.
I know my place and get on with my own life as it's a bit short to worry about my place in someone else's. I fit in with my Dcs plans if I can and if I can't, I can't. I am not going to waste a moment now of my own life.

Sorry, this was meant to come after Rockkroll5Me's post.