Divided family

This is a very sad situation but like many, I think the only way forward is to accept and enjoy when you do see your sons. My DD has mental health issues and over the last 12 years I have tried to support her despite her constant letting me down or being downright nasty. My DH will no longer see her because of the pain and trauma she has caused to me - he is not her father. My DSs will see her but she often won’t turn up to events. I see everyone separately- not how I would like it but I now focus on my time with each child. At least there is no bad feeling which there would be if we were all together. I long for a ‘John Lewis ‘ family Christmas but am realistic - it would not be like that even if we were all together. The only person we can control is ourselves.
Try to focus on what you do have and I defy anyone to say everything is hunky dory in their lives all the time !

The important thing is that YOU have a relationship with all your sons. Try to be positive about what you have. If your sons can't stand each other well, yes it's sad and difficult at times, but let them get on with it and enjoy your own life. It is their choice.

Bless you, I know how painful this situation must be as I also have estrangement in my family, nothing I can do has helped and I end up depressed (which upsets my adult children)
All I ever wanted was a happy family
Take care,

Ten years is along time, you do say you may have an inkling of what went wrong, from what you know do you think there is any way back, I am not sure about the writing idea once something is on paper there is no going back, you or DH could have one last chat to son it has never been mentioned to and see if you get anywhere although I suspect it is water under the bridge for them both now. You say one DIL wouldn't be much help, how do you get on with the other one. I suspect as is so often said on GN you will have to keep out of it all so you don't have a fallout with them. We never have all our family together at Xmas for reasons of distance, just how it is.

I am with grannyactivist on this one - they don't have to live in each others' pockets, just be civil and I'm sure they could do that at your funeral so why on earth not now when you can appreciate it.

I can truly empathise with your situation as I know it only to well from my own experience, I have no answer for you or myself for that matter, ( not from lack of trying , just exhausted from trying).
At times the sadness of the situation is overwhelming, but then I just have to try harder to make the best of things...
I am lucky to have ten amazing & beautiful grandchildren, inside & out, all in spite of their parents rivalry with each other.

I don't believe you are helping matters when you write that your husband had a "most miserable 70th birthday lunch with two thirds of his family" - does that mean two but not three of his three sons came to his birthday lunch? If so, it might be a good idea to try and change your thinking. If your remaining two sons discovered that by sharing this significant birthday with their dad left him feeling "most miserable" they may feel hurt and undervalued.

Oh! I just got it! It's the two sons estranged from each other. I thought the OP meant the two sons became estranged from their parents.

Definitely write to them with your honest words as above.

We often finish up having two Christmas celebrations to take account of where the children are that particular year. Because it is for practical reasons rather than estrangements, we just get stuck in and enjoy both. Maybe you could think about it like that - that even if they were best mates you could be in the same situation as regards celebrations and just enjoy each.

Brothers do not choose each other - an accident of birth throws them together. They are adults; they can choose how they relate. What is really important is that you do not let THEIR rift spoil YOUR life.

It is so sad when siblings are at war with each other but even worse when one or even all turn against their parents.I would not interfere or take sides as it could result in the latter taking place. Remain neutral as much as it hurts and hope as they grow older sense will prevail.

I actually don't understand the original post. You mention that you have to have two seperate family get togethers but it seemed from your post that you are only still socialising with one of your sons (as two are estranged); so who attends the other gathering? Also you don't say why the "less aggrieved" son has not been approached.

floria i have a good friend in the same situation as you. Her two children have been estranged for many years. I have often thought what might help and did think of the letter route but reading some of these helpful comments made me realise it is probably something that sadly she has to accept. Her children are both well into their forties and though it is upsetting she has accepted this very unhappy situation and like you her christmases are split between them both. Do keep photos on display and communication open.
Congratulations on your special anniversary and enjoy your break.

what a brilliant idea grannyactivist. It just might make them both think. Let us hope so.

Have much the same situation in our family too between one of my sons and a cousin who is the daughter of my late sister. Fell out over something relatively minor a few years ago and both too stubborn to meet halfway and make up again. They have children the same age who will probably end up at the same school which will be an interesting situation! I have to be careful if I meet up with my niece not to let on to DS. Such a silly situation.

I am in tears reading these sad posts. As well as our two sons not getting on we have been estranged from our two elder granddaughters for 10 years. We loved and cared for them so much but now they don’t want us in their lives. Their mother remarried soon after she divorced our son and a lot of rewriting of history has taken place. We have not been invited to either of their weddings and very soon our eldest and cherished granddaughter has her first baby, a great-grandson we will never see. Although they only live 15 miles away I only see their pictures or get news of them through Facebook.

I put so much energy into trying to support our sons and grandchildren over the years, sometimes putting them before my wonderful husband of 52 years who is my rock. Just recently something I read stuck in my mind and I am trying to live by it: “Try to please everybody and you end up pleasing nobody”. It is hard when you are a people pleaser but I am trying.

Thank you all for your suggestions, ideas and support. I just knew I would get sensible considered advice from you all and for this I am truly thankful. I agree with the suggestion that we are colluding with our eldest son and indeed there really is one huge elephant always present in the room. I do have lots of family photographs on display. On Sunday our eldest son and his wife are coming to see us and whereas before opening this thread I rather dreaded them coming and seeing the lovely photographs of our cherished new great grandson (as he has never been mentioned to them before) and wondered how I would explain it. Now I will relish telling them as of course we are very proud of this latest arrival. Of course it is essential that we show each faction that we are never taking sides and actively engage equally with all of them.

The funeral aspect is very relevant and agree it won’t bother whichever of us dies first but we both feel it will be unnecessarily stressful for the surviving partner. This aspect was brought vividly to the forefront last year when my husband had a heart attack, and though he is well now he did require a lot of surgical intervention. During his hospital stay I worried not what would happen if he died but how I would cope being in the presence of such wrath I felt would be present. I find it terribly difficult to manage confrontation.

Next year it is our Golden Wedding. Like another poster we will go away for a few days rather than have dual celebrations. Perhaps this will be a good event to let both sons know that their behaviour has consequences not just for themselves. We hope this might just make them realise how their differences have so sadly affected us. In colluding we have inadvertently given them both to he impression we are complacent with their situation and how it affects our once lovely united family. Thank you all again - what a caring group of posters you are. (flowers) to you all.

I’m so sad for you. I haven’t seen my older son for 15 years. He’s now 39. He had a row with his brother at our house and said we threw him out, which we didn’t. I tried very hard to heal the rift in the beginning but he didn’t want to know. I cry a lot!

I have exactly the same problem as you. we were cut off from our grandchildren, their minds poisoned against us. Totally excluded without any reason or explanation, invited to Christmas lunch and then 2 days before received a message 'we don't want you in our house after all'! When our other sons tried to ask them what the problem was, they were told very upsetting lies. I was heartbroken at the time but have now learned to live without them and hope that the grandchildren will come back to us when they are old enough to see the truth. they no longer have contact with our other sons either. It has now been established that he has a personality disorder and we understand that he is seeking treatment. we have a split family. We never give up hope that he, DIL and GChildren will one day come back to us. I do so understand, Floriatosca.

My heart goes out to you, it’s a very painful situation seemingly without resolve. We can’t make siblings like each other, and if you don’t know the full story this makes it doubly difficult. Try to stay positive to help you accept that some situations just can’t be resolved. As long as you maintain contact, even if it’s a card reiterating your love, you will know in your heart that you have done all you can in a situation that is beyond your control. And the family you can be close to will help you through this ....

Annsixty is right, the idea of all families being happy together over Christmas is largely a myth. Our expectations of Christmas are unrealistic sometimes. Of course there are happy joined up families around but there are many more who are estranged. Make the most of what you have and don't waste time on regrets. As someone else said, have your cup half full. Enjoy time with your family however its arranged and relax with your husband doing things you both like.

I don’t think mentioning funerals a good idea.
Can the son who comes to both your celebrations advise? Perhaps a one to one talk with him about the situation would help.
For geographic and logistic reasons I have separate Christmas celebrations with my DD and DS, one around 18th. It works for us. Not all families can all get together on Christmas Day.
As previous posters have said try to be positive and enjoy the separate birthday lunches for the people present rather than fret for the absent family.
As Meatloaf says ‘Two out of three ain’t bad!’

It’s very sad reading your messages and I know it must be heartbreaking for you.
In my case and many more it’s that fact that we lost a child not necessarily a young child even though that’s sad, you have to get through this every year when Christmas, birthdays anniversaries come round.

my sister"abdicated" from the family after my dad died,we can only think she didn't want the resposibility of looking after mum who suffered bad health problems. Despite us contacting her on numerous occassions when mum was ill we were ignored even when mum was on her deathbed.My mother insisted if she couldn't visit while she was alive then we weren't to ask her to come to the funeral.We felt we couldn't do that.She came with in laws in tow ,stayed for the service and left.She will just about say hello f she sees us in the street ,but there is no contact form her or her children .Its sad...but thats how it is.My elder sister and I just have to accept its how she wants things and we dont stress about it.Mind you thats been nearly 30 years without her ..so almost half our lives .

I know how you feel, the empty chair at the Christmas table is so hard for my family to deal with.
I wouldn’t get involved and risk your relationships with the others. You are damed if you do as one wrong word and you will be seen to favour one or the other and be taking sides. You will be involved in a heartbeat. Stay neutral, invite them all to each occasion, if they turn up they turn up. I wonder how having separate meals for each occasion has been received. They may both think the reason for this is the other won’t attend why the other is there when in fact it’s was your decision due to the atmosphere. Without explanation that could make the situation worse.
By inviting them all at the same time you place the decision on them as to wether they and their family attend. If they do maybe the little cousins could create the thaw you so desparately want. Good luck, hope it works out x