Our grown up children have minds of their own.

Knickas you sound like a lovely mum/grandma. Keep rolling out that love/support I'm sure you DD appreciates it after putting up with her mil.

I am witnessing this first hand. My DD and Sil have been together for 12 years, since their mid to late teens. He was terribly angry and unhappy young man when they met. They are a very contented couple withtheir third child on the way. Sil is part of our family, another son to me. He is an only child from a disfuntional family. His mother chose to move away when her marriage broke up (not his father). She visits them once a month and stays in their house. She is always very helpful, does housework and shops for them. My DD isn't much into housework! Her Mil is extremely houseproud and her home has no personal touches at all. My DD has started to find her presence 'interfereing' . She ignores pleas from my DD not to move things, or rearrange anything. My DD does not like chemical cleaners, her Mil bleaches everything - I mean everything. Now she has taken to criticizing her parenting, telling her that her youngest (3) is spoilt and backward (he is actually more forward and less tamtrummy then her adored eldest grandson) and the other day went directly against my DD instructions to her son, and went off in a strop when DD stood her ground. Then she told my Sil that my DD is undermining her! I have always tried to support their realtionship, and she is always invited to Christmas and famiy events, as I know she is on her own, and it is important for my grandchildren to have a good relationship with both sides of the family, but it has to be said, she is the most narcissitic person I have ever met! Keeping out of it - but have to provide tea and sympathy and the offer of bail money when it gets too difficult for my DD!

There are quite a few books on coercive control and how to deal with it.

Invisible Chains: Overcoming Coercive Control in Your Intimate Relationship Paperback – 28 Apr 2015
by Lisa Aronson Fontes (Author)

Saggi, I also don't agree with Violence but, bloody well done!

There's are lots of reasons why families fall out. To single out 1 particular reason is really niave.

I agree with everything that has been said. I'm in a situation, but I'm on the outside looking in, they have tried to drag me into it a few times but managed to keep myself out of it, yet still been blamed for the reason the relationship has broke down.

So I do understand what Luckylegs is saying. However, this is such a long and in depth problem that has always been there due to the persons behaviour.

This isn't your everyday, run of the mill, normal person. I understand completely that they manifest as a friend or a boyfriend, family member, an in law or whatever and if you are unlucky enough to encounter one of these people, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying, about how difficult it is for it to be a normal and healthy relationship.

Controlling people think about them, their point of view, their inability to think about anyone else's feelings, they like to play the victim in situations they create, nothing you do is good enough, it is always you and never them. No amount of talking or explaining will change anything so people step back, leave the relationship, divorce and because you do that, you're the bad one for not putting up with their behaviour and leaving the relationship, sometimes it takes years and years to leave.

An abusive and controlling relationship come in all shapes and sizes.

I agree with everything Coconut has said.

Oh Saggi I wish I had a 'high five' icon I could post. The punch clearly worked for you and I'm so pleased that it did.

I agree totally Coconut, remember when we were children we were told that 'sticks and stones may break our bones but words can never hurt us', I used to say that to our boys but of course it isn't true is it.

There are lots of different ways to take back control saggi, that was one. Good for you.

Leaving was DD's way of taking back control. Lots of people never find the strength to take back control and suffer for the rest of their lives. DD's ex MiL is one such but I know of lots of others. Some people die as a result of being in that sort of relationship.

I do not agree with violence ..... however, having been in your situation, when all else has failed, I can so see how this can happen. As you say, controllers are cowards, pure and simple, it’s mental cruelty that they subject others too, just no one can see the bruises. Saggi I salute you and you so made me laugh !!

I've heard similar before, Saggi.

I grew up with a controlling mum.... I married a controlling husband. But strangely after an endless 25 years....when he was slagging me off,..blaming me for another of his disasters... I punched his lights out!!! One blow that’s all it took ...I saw red ( I ACTUALLY) saw red ...and he cowered from that day to this.He now speaks to me respectfully ...he doesn’t blame me for his life anymore. You see what I’ve found out is controllers are cowards ... both mentally and physically. The punch was never mentioned . I took back control and whatever people on thread think it WAS the right thing to do.

Luckylegs 9 A controlling person is usually one, who themselves have experienced what it is like to be under some ones control and usually stems from their own parent/parents
It is easy to say how can our sons /daughters allow themselves to be controlled in that way.
Fear is frequently the reason.
It takes very little to control someone who is of a placid nature. Fear of what might happen.?
Using children whereby the dominating half of the relationship uses the children as their weapon?
'But they have a mind of their own' Easy to say when you are not the victim.
Unfortunately for many this mind of their own as been taken away.

DD1 was with a very violent and controlling man. He was on drugs and very fond of alcohol. He was constantly sending her to get money from me or our family members particularly the older ones. Many times I tried to get her to leave him. One day I displeased him and he hit me. Without thinking I hit back and was told by DD not to hit him. As awful as it sounds I wish I had done more that day. He nearly killed my DD and DGC with his violence. The Police and SS could not see him for what he was despite all my pleas for help from them both. So this went on for 4 years. He was controlling DD and trying to control the rest of us. Eventually she did see through him but it took some very serious stuff to give her the clarity to see through him.
It is so easy to talk from the outside. I can only imagine the pressure she was under out of our sight. It was a horrible time and not something I ever want to live through again.

Gabrielle
What I don't understand is why your son would stay with a woman like that.

How cruel these mil dil and sil can be.I often see threads for other gps on here makes me so angry.
My son was in a violent relationship and it cost him his life
No matter what you do as bad as it is they have to make the choices I tried everything I could and will feel guilty for the rest of my life. My one consolation is I have his d our gd thank god.

Because of a controlling Mum and a controlling ex husband, my 3 kids all saw the ramifications. We always discussed the issues openly, how to avoid it and how to deal with it by assertiveness. I always befriended all their partners they had, but I would not tread on eggshells with anyone, as this had just enabled bad situations with Mum and my ex to continue. I calmly address anything that comes in my path now that makes me feel uncomfortable, I ask questions and empathise to smooth relationships. I know that it’s 10 times harder to deal with stuff years down the line when bad habits/patterns are firmly established .... I learned the hard way with trying to keep others happy to the detriment of my own feelings. I am lucky, it’s worked out for me and I adore all my 3’s partners.

MissAdventure

Lovely & interesting post Lilyflower and lovely name too Well done you on your control. I feel good having a clean & tidy home too, apart from when I have my darling little granddaughter to visit, then I turn a blind eye & enjoy the fun & love

Most books are heavy going for me these days, yogagirl. I used to relish a great book that gave my mind a bit of a workout: too lazy these days, sadly.

I agree MissAdveture with your post of 9.03am. I may get that book too, sounds interesting, but heavy going . I am reading a fabulous book at the moment by Arun Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi's grandson, titled 'The gift of anger' spiritual & inspirational life lessons.

" When I watch programmes about hoarders and obsessive cleaners its quite clear that its rooted in a need to control their space."

I had a very chaotic childhood and my OCD weightwatching and house cleaning are a way of exercising control over some aspects of my life. I find an orderly and lovely house very calming and it reduces my anxieties.

Nevertheless, I am also a rational person and constantly monitor myself for defensive attempts to control others and make special efforts to allow my family as much freedom as they wish.

For example, I have relinquished having my DD for Christmas every year as she is now engaged and has to factor in her fiance's family on a 'visit in turn' basis.

I find some things very hard in a way I can see that others do not but I can rationalise myself through them.

If I can do it, so can others. It is not acceptable to cut your DS or DD off from their spouse or their spouse's family and it is not acceptable for a SIL or a DIL to cut their partner off from his or her parents (unless they are monsters which most are not). I have read many stories recently on Gransnet about the heartlessness and cruelty of family members cutting their partners or children off from people they love and am aghast at their cruelty and at the suffering involved.

I don't think the posts on here by MissAdventure and Nonnie and ninathenana can be compared to that of yesterday's AIBU posts. Trying to keep the peace often does mean treading on eggshells and usually biting your tongue because it seems to be the only way forward. These posts speak of not interfering while still being there to support. That is very different to the scenario of the previous debacle.

Thanks very much! I might see if I can find it online and have a read, thanks to your summary.

Think I just did summarise a bit

Don't want to summarise her because I would make a mess of it but her thesis is that personality types originate in the workings of the brain stem. We can control our the outward workings of our personality once we have an understanding of it though we will never change the fundamentals.
Worth reading, especially the "laddering" exercise to establish how your mind works!

I haven't read that. Sounds interesting. I have always thought that needing control is about low self esteem. When I watch programmes about hoarders and obsessive cleaners its quite clear that its rooted in a need to control their space. Controlling people is, would imagine, a similar feeling.

Monica totally agree with your post