Our grown up children have minds of their own.

I don't think a partner has to be violent to be controlling. It can be very insidious. Often people who are in the relationship can't see what's happening, but to those outside its clear. Just as grandparents here are advised to keep the peace, bite their tongues and walk on eggshells, so partners of controlling people can do the same, until they're losing sight of themselves.

Totally agree MissAdventure
Ex SiL did not stop D from having contact with us, probably because it was to his advantage. Child care, loaned money (never seen again) etc. However, he did control everything else D did I'm saying no more.
It took 7 yrs of 'treading on eggshells' but she eventually had found the courage to leave him.

I don't think we can interfere, just support our children when they are in such a relationship. There are a lot of controlling people, the media seem to think it is only men who are controlling, also violent. They are very wrong, it is often a woman who is controlling and threads on here make it clear that often DiLs shut out their DH/partner's family for no good reason at all.

Thankfully my son has ignored my daughter-in-law's every effort to cut me out. In fact, we now have a new honesty and closeness. It has, however, impacted on his marriage and that really saddens me. She refuses to let me see my granddaughter. I'm not allowed to send gifts....although money is acceptable! Of course, money doesn't need an explanation, a bike does doesn't it? When I found out what the little one was witnessing whenever my son tried to bring her to see me, I immediately stepped back. I can't be responsible for her being hurt, and anyway she would always associate me with hideous rows between her parents....blame me even. It's quieter between them now, mainly because her mum had got most of her own way. Naturally the other grandparents feature largely in her life, despite them living in a different country.

It's hard, as I don't have great health, and I'm alone since my precious husband died. However, my conclusion is that with people like my daughter -in-law there are often narcissistic traits involved, and the only way you can win with that type of person is by not playing the game.

Exactly what MissAdventure said!

nina

You've hit them all on the head lucky. It is easy for us grandparents to blame a son or daughter in law when in reality most of these family problems occur because of a disconnect when an adult child creates a new family unit (usually when a parent doesn't like the new husband/wife for example or when the parent struggles to accept the smaller influence they now have on their child's life). It's true that a husband or wife will have a huge impact on the way their spouse behaves, especially once a couple have been together a long time. But that is normal and natural and I believe that relations within families will be vastly improved if we can all learn to get along

I would imagine problems arise because of a multitude of reasons, as diverse as each family is. Some of the threads here are very complicated, with exes, step parents, half siblings, etc etc.

Completely agree with MissAdventure's first response here. It's been going on in my family for over 25 years with DD unable to stand up to constant verbal abuse and never got the courage to break free. She lives nearly two hundred miles away. Last time I saw her was two years ago for about half an hour and she only phones once or twice a year when he isn't around. Says it all really!

Really bugsy "when in reality most of these family problems occur because of a disconnect when an adult child creates a new family" how do you know? Have you made a study of estrangement?

I can just imagine the reaction I'd get from you if I'd made a statement that said "most of these family problems occur because the AC marries a controlling and emotionally abusive partner".

It certainly isn't normal and natural for an AC who had a close and loving relationship with his/her parents to cut them out once they've married and their first child has been born.

Smileless - I'm sorry but I wasn't commenting on your situation at all. Why take it personally - or did I hit a nerve?.
I didn't say it was common for an 'AC who had a close and loving relationship with his/her parents to cut them out once they've married and their first child has been born'.
I said it was common for a wife/husband to alter their beliefs/behaviours in line with their spouses - people change, especially if they've been with somebody a long time. It doesn't mean that's a bad thing but birth families can sometimes struggle to accept this and the fact that they are no longer no.1 in their adult child's life.

Also... if you want an illustration of the kind of situation I'm talking about there is a thread on the AIBU board titled 'Aibu to want my son back? His fiancé has taken him from me'.
I half admire the poster for realising and honestly sharing her true opinions but she perfectly reflects the kind of family breakdown situation that I refer to.

Missadventure good post, and totally the situation with my estD.

But most of the people responding to that thread, including myself, feel that the OP brought the problem she now thinks she has, upon herself by first abandoning her son herself and then expecting to resume a close relationship 8 years later.

I think in some cases, and please note I am saying some cases, the parents themselves are at least contributory, sometimes completely responsible, for any estrangement from their children, but find it easier to blame their child's spouse than be honest with themselves about their contribution.

Adding another layer to the issue, some people have grown up with a controlling parent, and go on to relationships with controlling partners as they know no different.

Maybe. Or is the need to establish control innate?
Has anybody else read Dorothy Rowe?
"The Successful Self" was a total epiphany to me in helping me to understand why some people have the need for control and how terrifying the world is to them when that control is threatened.
She is my guru!

Monica totally agree with your post

I haven't read that. Sounds interesting. I have always thought that needing control is about low self esteem. When I watch programmes about hoarders and obsessive cleaners its quite clear that its rooted in a need to control their space. Controlling people is, would imagine, a similar feeling.

Don't want to summarise her because I would make a mess of it but her thesis is that personality types originate in the workings of the brain stem. We can control our the outward workings of our personality once we have an understanding of it though we will never change the fundamentals.
Worth reading, especially the "laddering" exercise to establish how your mind works!

Think I just did summarise a bit

Thanks very much! I might see if I can find it online and have a read, thanks to your summary.

I don't think the posts on here by MissAdventure and Nonnie and ninathenana can be compared to that of yesterday's AIBU posts. Trying to keep the peace often does mean treading on eggshells and usually biting your tongue because it seems to be the only way forward. These posts speak of not interfering while still being there to support. That is very different to the scenario of the previous debacle.

" When I watch programmes about hoarders and obsessive cleaners its quite clear that its rooted in a need to control their space."

I had a very chaotic childhood and my OCD weightwatching and house cleaning are a way of exercising control over some aspects of my life. I find an orderly and lovely house very calming and it reduces my anxieties.

Nevertheless, I am also a rational person and constantly monitor myself for defensive attempts to control others and make special efforts to allow my family as much freedom as they wish.

For example, I have relinquished having my DD for Christmas every year as she is now engaged and has to factor in her fiance's family on a 'visit in turn' basis.

I find some things very hard in a way I can see that others do not but I can rationalise myself through them.

If I can do it, so can others. It is not acceptable to cut your DS or DD off from their spouse or their spouse's family and it is not acceptable for a SIL or a DIL to cut their partner off from his or her parents (unless they are monsters which most are not). I have read many stories recently on Gransnet about the heartlessness and cruelty of family members cutting their partners or children off from people they love and am aghast at their cruelty and at the suffering involved.

I agree MissAdveture with your post of 9.03am. I may get that book too, sounds interesting, but heavy going . I am reading a fabulous book at the moment by Arun Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi's grandson, titled 'The gift of anger' spiritual & inspirational life lessons.

Most books are heavy going for me these days, yogagirl. I used to relish a great book that gave my mind a bit of a workout: too lazy these days, sadly.