Our grown up children have minds of their own.

Good post Smileless xx

Sheilasue, I keep thinking of you losing your son because of his violent partner. It is hard to imagine your suffering. Without doubt you would have done everything in your power to help him get out of that relationship, at the end of the day you can't control anyone, just offer support and be there. We want our children happy, we would rather we have the pain. You say you have your gd, do you see her often? I hope so much you for.?
Saggi, good for you, bullies give it out but don't like the tables turned on them. I would have liked to see the expression on his face.

I agree

I can second that.

Well yes, we do have to accept it if our AC choose to distance themselves from us, their parents because there's nothing we can do about it.

We also have to accept it if our AC cut us out of their's and their children's lives as there's nothing we can do about that either.

We also have to accept that where some cut out's are justified and understandable, others are not. Not all CO parents wanted to be or expected to be the third person in their AC's marriage and not all CO GP's wanted to be or expected to be, the third parent of their GC.

Bad things can and do happen to good people.

No, I am not estranged from my children. I have a close relationship with them. All of them, and DGC, have just gone home after a one week stay over Christmas.

I am not talking about how much time we spend with our children and grand children. But there seem to be many relationships where parents expect to be part of their grown-up children's adult relationships, the third person in every marriage, the third parent of their grandchildren. and, as we know, that never works.

I do think that we have to accept that, for good or ill, our children should define our adult relationship with them. If we are lucky that relationship will be close and loving, in other cases, for good reason or bad, they will choose to distance themselves from us and we have to accept that.

May I ask Monica are you estranged from your AC?

This is true Monica I visited my now estD twice per week for an hour only, before I would take the two C & two dogs for a walk, so my D could have a rejuvenating bath & 'me' time. Is that too much? [genuine question] I would babysit when asked, only visited when her H was at work and never at weekends.

Having said that, my D moved from my house into their house, so I still felt very connected with her, & she with me, she would phone me every day. Looking back maybe from his point of view and he & his mother being jealous of me & my other D [only realised after the CO], he obviously saw this as too much. He lived in my house with my D before they moved into their own place and I thought we got on ok. Just goes to show, you never know what's going on in someone's mind

I think we need to realise that once our children are grown up and launched on the sea of life, then our job is done. Some of us will be fortunate and continue to have a loving relationship with our children and grandchildren but that is not guaranteed, nor is it our right.

We need to step back and leave them to develop their own lives in their own way. They may choose careers and lifestyles that are not what we had hoped for, but it is none of our business to interfere, unless the personal safety of others is threatened.

I think quite a number of estrangement and difficult relationships are the result of grandparents failing to leave a proper space between themselves and their adult children. If my parents had behaved as some grandparents on GN say they have, we would undoubtedly have kept them at a distance, and limited contact.

My estD is without question controlled by her husband, as are many women controlled by their man, in some cases it is the women in control, as in Smileless's case.

Love the name minesaprosecco

Its often an unhealthy conspiracy of silence kept by the controlling person and their partner.

Norah, I doubt very much that you don't know anyone who is in a relationship where they are being controlled - they will be hiding it from you, possibly out of fear of their partner, possibly because they think their relationship is normal, possibly because they know you won't understand so it's not worth discussing it, or for any number of other possible reasons.

I think it is extremely rare to be "controlled".

The title "Our grown children have minds of their own", yes, indeed they do,

Madgram77, This is what I was agreeing with: "I don't see how a loving son or daughter would allow themselves to be told what they can or can't do. Know adult children they have to keep the peace to a certain extent, but they have minds of their own, only in compatively rare cases does a partner have to be very sick and vicious to demand no contact us made." from the opening post.

You not agreeing does not make me wrong.

I'm sure most couples each have some controlling behaviour. I have certainly seen signs of it in a lot my friends' relationships. Husbands who 'can't manage' to look after their children when the wife is out. He has to keep phoning her to ask questions. Women who go home to the silent treatment after visiting their family. Husbands who want a blow by blow account of everything you spoke about on the phone to your friend. I'm sure wives do it too, but I'm friends with the wives, so I'm probably a bit blinkered.

Norah just because you don't know anyone in tat situation, doesn't mean it doesn't happen!!

Yes Smileless you're right about that saying, as we all know, words can certainly break your heart!

Your first post is excellent Starlady and spot on in my estD's situation. My estD should have done that which you've said in your second post, which is see her birth family with the C & he could stay clear if that was he's wish.

Absolutely Sarahelen and well done Saggi I think you did the right thing too, even though I don't condone violence, but it certainly woke him up didn't it!

Sorry about your hard times too Sugarpuff at least your D is out & safe now. I fear for my estD & GD too.

Sheilasue so very sorry for the loss of your dear Son God Bless

I think it is sometimes worth looking back to when we were the younger generation and our relationship with our parents then. Didn't most of us 'have our own minds', make some decisions that our parents didn't like and approve of, have to deal with difficult parents.

I can think of friends who dealt with loving, but smothering parents, parents who pontificated and knew all the answers - except that they never understood the problems.

Of course our children have minds of their own. If they didn't we would have failed as parents.

I think it's heartbreaking what some of you have been through here, particularly you, Sheila, having lost your ds. My heart goes out to you.

But yes, our ac do "have minds of their own." Imo, that means that in SOME cases - NOT saying any here - they agree with their partners. Or they've worked out a compromise with their partner that their parents don't know about. For example, maybe a dil doesn't want to bother with her pils, but her dh does because, whatever their flaws, they're his parents and he loves them. So maybe they decide he can still see them if he wants, but she won't. And maybe they decide, also, even after much arguing, that the gc won't see them either. The parents/pils may see it as, "Dil is keeping the gc away from me, even though ds comes here." And maybe she is. But also, it's a compromise on dil's part because if it were up to her, he wouldn't bother with his parents anymore either. Make sense?

But Norah, there are women who have stayed with physically or emotionally abusive husbands for years before having the courage and the means to get away. The same, I imagine, is true for some men. No one likes to be controlled, but not everybody has the inner strength to leave just like that.

I'm sure there are some who have less extreme spouses who are controlling in a milder way. Maybe they won't hit, etc., but they'll argue, give the cold shoulder, etc. till they get their way. Not everyone can stand up to that. Some, I;m sure, find it easier to "go along to get along."

That being said, I think it's different than when a gp walks on eggshells. Gps do that because they really have no say in their ac and cil's household or over their gc. And because they don't want to lose access to their gc.

Spouses have equal say in the marriage and parenting. Or at least, they have a right to it even if that's not how it pans out. If they're walking on eggshells, it's because of an extremely touchy or controlling spouse - not just someone who's asserting their rights over their kids, etc. It's a very different situation, imo, I know both can be upsetting though.

"On other threads relating to breakdowns in families, I see a reoccurring scenario of adult children breaking contact because of what parents see as them having controlling partners. I don't see how a loving son or daughter would allow themselves to be told what they can or can't do."

I agree. I don't know any person who stays with a partner who wants to control.