Philip Larkin was right.

I brought up our two daughters alone from the ages of 5 and 7, both adored, both had the same house rules etc, no two sisters could be so different

"I think our children can 'damage' us just as we can influence and 'damage' them". Good point Day6.

morethan I don't think you've failed at all. Your son has had a dreadful time and has felt a very heavy burden on his shoulders, trying to be everything to his sick wife and his children.
No surprise that the dam has burst and all his angst has come flooding out, poor thing.
You have been supporting him to the best of your ability as a wonderful, caring mum.
Much better that all your emotions can be shared within your family.
I am filled with admiration for you all, you sound like a very caring family.

Laughing here.

Morethan2, perhaps family life is toxic to most people? I often think about how much easier life would have been (emotionally) if I hadn't had children. (I love them to bits and wouldn't change things at all, but I am still in turmoil at times - even though they're adults - and worry so much because of the things that happen to them.)

Anyway, Larkin wrote this.

"Everyone should be forcibly transplanted to another continent from their family at the age of three."

I think our children can 'damage' us just as we can influence and maybe 'damage' them. Just musing.

DD and DS discovered that they had totally different memories of their shared childhood with DS being very denigrating until DD spoke to him and told him what rubbish he was talking! When his children became old enough to present him with their skewed versions of their ongoing childhood he actually apologised to us and said that he now realised that he was a right pain in the the posterior. We agreed whole-heartedly, told him that we didn't want to argue about it and told him that we love him to bits anyway! We all had a good laugh and I hope that all your angst comes out in the wash in a similar manner morethan! Sometimes it is 'least said soonest mended' and just love them whatever if at all possible.

Luckygirl can I just say your post (up there) is very wise. It gave me food for thought.

Morethan2 I am so sorry that you are worrying about your son. They see life through their own lens though, so try to see his unloading to both you and his aunt as a good thing. Perhaps there will be times, when he hasn't had a drink, when you can have a chat together about how you felt about events. Life is always full of ups and downs and I think it can take a lot of time to put things in to perspective and see the whole picture, and events from another angle. It has helped me so much to remove the blinkers I wore regarding some situations. I don't think we can always do that when we are young. Wisdom comes with ageing. The things that I used to fret about I have now re-framed, and it has helped me enormously.

I do hope you and your son can talk further. We all do our best as parents but events can leave us with a skewed outlook sometimes and it doesn't hurt to mull over how we feel about things. "It is what it is" is my philosophical outlook quite often these days. We cannot change the past and to linger there is never a good thing.

Oh and Philip Larkin was a miserable sod. It's documented that he was rather strange and had difficulties with intimacy. I bet his parents were really relieved when he left home. I like MawBroon's version of the verse.

I’m sorry for my shocking post Margaret you weren’t to know the seriousness of the situation.

Easier said than done when you’ve been bottling it up for almost two years and your wife’s got a terminal illness Margaret

Why does he feel awful about his relationship to his sister. Just because it does not fit into the ideas we have today of family life. You choose your friends not your siblings. I didn’t like my brother particularly but I didn’t beat myself up about it. We didn't in those days.

It seems that all that he said to different people shows that he is in trouble and needs some kind of therapy.
He should try and choose just one person for his outpourings and then shut up and try and think of somethng else.

Surely, the good in this is that your son felt that he could unburden himself so totally to both you and his aunt. In how many families could an adult child feel they could completely unburden themselves to close members of their family and receive only kindness understanding and support?

Yes,you have had problems in life, but what a success you have made of it.

Some lovely wise words here and not much I could add to these. But I agree absolutely that although we do all make mistakes as parents if we can say that we have tried our best with the knowledge and resources we had available to us then we are not “failures”. As others have said too adult children often view their childhood through a very different prism and can’t see or appreciate the challenges that parents may have faced. I was 35 before I felt that I could really appreciate my own mothers struggles and acknowledge them to her.

(flowers) Morethanto - take comfort, so many wise words here for you. As others have said, your son felt he could unburden himself to you - so he knows you are there for him and love him. Grown up children often think Mum can solve everything as she seemed to do when they were young. My youngest daughter, although married with children does this all the time and she perceives her childhood very differently from her sisters and brother. It is nothing you have done. Go on listening and as others have said, suggest where he can get help. Best wishes to you,

You believed him and understand why he feels as he does. I think that is a big thing and the best that you can do at this stage. Make sure that he understands that.
Siblings don't always get along and it isn't helpful when a parent's attitude is just that 'sisters always fight' or whatever the make up of the sibling is. It may be one bullying and the other trying to defend themselves, or other things going on.
You haven't dismissed his feelings or tried to minimise them.
If he is crying for long periods, he needs to speak to his GP and try to get help. Make him understand that you are ok despite the past difficulties and that you don't expect him to solve your problems. Adult children often misunderstand their 'job' in the family. I had to tell my sister that it wasn't her job to correct or educate me (we were both in our early 50s by then) and she was very surprised but admitted that it wasn't.
You are in the middle of the situation but I think that you are getting more right than you can see from where you are.
He has two people in the family he can go to. They both are prepared to listen without judging him, understand why he feels the way he does, and want to help. That is a big first step. You are not experts in depression though which this sounds like and a bit of extra help is always useful.

Despite writing that poem Philip Larkin actually wrote to his mother every day!

Some people are just more sensitive and emotional than others, and will look at life differently. What one sees as a minor incident, another will feel it’s a mountain to overcome. None of us are perfect parents, we all made mistakes, but however hard it is to talk about it, it will help both of you to gain clarity and acceptance. Empathy with each other is always a good way forward ?

Thank you, Maw - that's brilliant. I'd not read that before.

Thanks, MawBroon for posting Adrian Mitchell's version, which is so much closer to the reality for most of us, surely? for you, morethan2, it isn't obvious you've failed at all, it's obvious that you're a good and loving mum.

I think we all do the best we can at the time - and that's all we can do.

I love your phrase'parent with good intentions' Luckygirl

You have a ds who's loyal to you and doesn't like to see you hurt. Is that a bad thing? Maybe liquor made the feelings more intense than they are normally. I know it hurts to see your ds and dd at odds with each other. But that's between them and only they can fix it.

ann’s right morethan, you’ve enough in your plate and I also feel sad for your sadness. You aren’t responsible for your son’s feelings. His relationship with his sister is between them. maw is also right, her poem far more accurate than the Philip Larkin which is cleverly written but not necessarily accurate. It sounds as if your son had bottled a lot up until he exploded, as with all explosions his words weren’t considered or even accurate. Please just keep loving your son and be there for him, but please don’t ever feel responsible for either his situation or reactions, you certainly haven’t failed. Sending to you all. .

Has everybody read this instead of “This be the verse”
This Be the Worst
They tuck you up, your mum and dad,
They read you Peter Rabbit, too.
They give you all the treats they had
And add some extra, just for you.

They were tucked up when they were small,
(Pink perfume, blue tobacco-smoke),
By those whose kiss healed any fall,
Whose laughter doubled any joke.

Man hands on happiness to man,
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
So love your parents all you can
And have some cheerful kids yourself.

I would bet my OAP that these are the parents we always set out to be -NOT what Philip Larkin (albeit cleverly) derides.

Morethan I think that your son just needed to cry, he is living through difficult times.
His tears will have left him exhausted but will have been cathartic.
He was able off load, whhich is much healthier than holding everything in.

for morethan and family.

Not only does every child in the family have a different childhood but also it is astounding what children forget as they grow up. My sister played the piano to relax, she loved it. I remember but my middle aged nephew asked if his mother ever played the piano!

The sad fact is that our children are individual personalities and will react to life in different ways. Often they cling onto a childish attitude to the things that happened to them as a child, when they did not have the wisdom or insight to understand the challenges faced by their parents. It is sad that your son is feeling like this; but there will also be things in his current life that are entirely beyond your control that are contributing to how he is just now.

It is very hard indeed to know that one's children are struggling in some way, but we cannot take responsibility for that.

Parenting is a challenge and the only think I can say is that good enough is good enough. We can only do our best and parent with good intentions. Life is not perfect however and there will be times when we got it wrong, or our children think we have.

What a difficult time this is for you. We are all imperfect parents in our own ways - and all of us have great virtues in our parenting too.

I always feel guilty that I never really forgave my mother for the difficulties of our childhoods - as an adult I understood that she suffered from PMT in a big way and this accounted for her extremely erratic behaviour, but that did not make it any easier to live with at the time. She too was doing her best I am sure, as we all do.

I am sorry that your son is having a bad patch. All we can do is be here for them.