Really really sad

Icnahandthemback wrote:

"Alexa, isn't it a bit archaic to accord first wives a certain privilege to a second wife?" Yes, it is old fashioned I do agree, and I gather that Flump thinks so too. The justification is that nobody should be allowed to feel left out and abandoned by loved ones especially by blood relatives. and nobody should be allowed to feel abandined and betrayed because they are old. I am modern in quite a lot of ways, however I do support the status ascribed to age and close kin.
It may sometimes be that blood relations are horrible people but if so their descendants should not deny that they exist or existed.

123flump, I quite agree!

crazyH so do both of your sons' children refer to her as nana? Or is it just the son you have to "beg" to see?

I think alot of GPs on here would envy you with strong relationships with your DDs children, seeing one son and his family every week and the others from time to time. I have grandchildren round the corner who I see more than once a week and others who live hundreds of miles away who I see every couple of months. We still manage a close relationship. You might feel happier if you try to concentrate on the positive things.

icanhandthemback, I get the tongue in cheek but I think some are quite serious with the whole men being stolen, women setting out to wreck families etc. Men are big grown up creatures and can be responsible for themselves. Your own example shows it can be complicated.

123flump, "Scarlet Woman" from me was very much tongue in cheek. It's what my husband called me as I was married when we met and it is a bit of a standing joke. Before I get lambasted, his wife was boffing his 'best man' long before I turned up!

Sorry123flump....I might not have made myself clear ....I have 5 grandchildren in all by 3 of my children....I was referring to one particular son and his wife...they have 2 kuds, a toddler and a baby. They are the ones I have to "beg" to see. My daughter's children are teenagers and I see them often ( outside of their hectic teenage life?). The other son has a toddler and I see him every Sunday. Hope it's a bit clearer now. I must go back to my original post and edit if necessary

crazyH, I don't understand you saying you have to "beg" to see them, early you said you go every Sunday? How often are you expecting to see them, maybe your expectations are unrealistic.

It's the significant adults who decide upon honorific titles such as 'Nana', not the children. No children get to an age where they decide and if they have to hide that, like the little boy I mentioned, I think they will resent the people who make them do that. You can't dictate to a child who they should love.

All this scarlet woman thing is a bit Victorian. It is sad if a marriage ends in divorce but no woman "steals" a man, he isn't an object or a possession. The "other" woman owes no allegiance to the first wife. The husband left her, the husband had made vows to her, his now wife didn't.

OP I think you risk losing if you make this a war, do think carefully about what you might lose.

CrazyH, good plan. It gets easier with time and their cuddles are what really help.

Icanhandthemback,
Yes you are right, the "scarlet woman" is probably relishing the power she has over my feelings..... she must have heard about this "nana" thing.
You are all so wise and clearheaded....I will try to refrain from thinking too much about the past betrayal and just enjoy the grandchildren.....thank you xx

Alexa, isn't it a bit archaic to accord first wives a certain privilege to a second wife? I think first and second spouses should be a bit more grown up about it. In an ideal society everyone should be equal. It may well be that the scarlet woman is a wonderful stepmother who had absolutely no say in what the child called her. As the mother of a child with a stepmother, I'd be more than happy for my child to acknowledge the role played by another adult who loves her. Being a stepmother isn't the easiest role especially if the first wife harbours ill feelings which the children pick up.

Annodomini, by "first wives and second wives should know their places" I mean that second wives and society as a whole ideally should accord certain privileges to the first wife. Especially if she is the progenitor of grandchildren.

It's the significant adults who decide upon honorific titles such as 'Nana', not the children.

I'd have felt only slightly disappointed if my daughters in law had insisted her children call me 'Nana' as I dislike the name. Also I rather like the name 'Granny'. However I'd not make a fuss about it. 'Nana' is not my family tradition: 'Granny'is.

My main point is that the actual grandmother should be honoured according the her ascribed status. If she want to be called whatever she should get her way, as long as it's not terribly rude.

To be honest, I'd have a face on me too. I wouldn't allow someone to try and dictate to my children what they must call their grandparents, even if they did it by passive aggressive means.

crazyHToday, I had the family over for dinner and I noticed that one of the d.i.l had a "face on her" as they say, but I said what I had to say
I really do think you are blowing this up out of all proportion, and as 123flump said: the adults put their feelings first.
What does a name matter? You have grandchildren, they love you and you see them regularly.
Don't spoil it.

Mawbroon, I'm with you. Betrayal hurts really badly but watching a loved one die, there is no contest. Very often when you have had all the pain of losing someone, you have the anger too that they didn't perhaps look after themselves in the way they should have done and that feels like a betrayal in itself. And in this case, 20 years has passed. That is a lifetime for some and no cheating little scumbag is worth holding on to that amount of pain.

If anybody has lost the right to a title, it should be "Grandad" who should have known better! If crazyH is still sensitive to this, I would have thought the last thing she should do is to let the scarlet woman know is that she has that sort of power to hurt her.

123flump...... no I mentioned nothing about her having a "face on her"...I think it was the "nana" thing... , I was hurt and I had to tell them I was hurt. Mind you, she and I have never had a smooth relationship. I always have to "beg" to see them, even though they only live about 5 miles away. Whenever I want to visit, she has always got an excuse. Since both my sons work away a lot, all visitations have to be organised with the wives. The other daughterin law is easier to talk to and more tolerant of me ?

MissAdventure, yes I think the children should be allowed to choose. Why should that little boy have to keep it a secret that he called this man granddad to all his friends. Why would anyone who loved him want to put that pressure on a 7 year old? So no Alexa I think the adults should listen to the children, they aren't babies forever and will make their own decisions. Four years on I sometimes see that little boy with his "granddad" and their relationship is clearly close.

I think flumps story shows that children should be allowed to choose who they call Nanny or grandad, or whatever version of those names
Obviously not allowing them makes no difference to how they feel, and there is nothing anyone can do about that.

Wasn't Nana the name of the dog in Peter Pan?
Yes anno and the kindly dog looked after the children so that is where Nana came from as a name for grandmother I think.

Since the Queen is Granny, as was her mother, and my grandmothers were also Grannies, so are my sisters and I. But whatever they call you, as Maw says, it's the relationship with your DGC that matters. FGS, Alexa what on earth do you mean by First wives and second wives should know their places.? It sounds as if you are assigning a hierarchy of grandparents.
Wasn't Nana the name of the dog in Peter Pan?

123Flump's story illustrates that the main adults concerned should sort out who is allowed to be called by what title in their family.

Nana or Nanna is not the name I chose. I chose 'Granny' and let it be known that that was what I wanted to be called. It's a good name, and mine by right to choose my own name due to that I am one of the actual grandmothers. A second wife with no genetic connection to the grandchildren should concede the title and have the tact to invent her own title. There are plenty of possible nice titles and names for any woman to choose from .without trespassing on the rights of the first wife.

First wives and second wives should know their places. Of course the children come first and kids are excellent at learning what someone's name is so no problem.

I think people sometimes forget that children are real people with feelings of their own. I volunteer at a local primary and do 1 to 1 reading with children. The children love a bit of 1 to 1 and tell me about their birthdays, their new siblings etc as we get sorted out with books. Well one little boy was telling me a story about his granddad. He was lively and loved telling the story and then he lowered his voice and said, "I call him granddad because he is my gran's husband but I'm not allowed to say that at home as mum and dad don't like it." It was like a painful secret, this little boy clearly had a great relationship with this man, he saw him as another granddad but the adults put their feelings first.

CrazyH, when you said your DIL had a face on her and you said what you had to say I'm not sure what you mean. Did you say something about her having a face on or was it something about the Nana thing?

Me and the other grandparent have always been Nana, it makes no difference to either of us. Children cannot be expected at a young age to remember the different name, all they think is it's another person to love and loves them. Im now called Nan as they say they are to cool to say Nana, hope they mean I'm to cool to be Nana.
Just embrace the opportunity to be a part of the GC lives what ever they call you as some other grandparents are not allowed.