Will attitudes to mental health change?

I am the step-gran to my husband’s sons 2 children. The youngest, a boy aged 3 is a very late developer, he cannot speak, doesn’t make eye contact, cannot be toilet trained and I feel he has symptoms of autism. Added to this his mother now appears to be suffering from depression, the parents do not want to discuss any of this, although they have told us nursery has twice flagged up the little boy’s behaviour and have advised speech therapy as a first step. They then told us he passed a hearing test and so they are happy to wait longer to see if his speech improves. They carry on as if everything is normal. We want to keep our good relationship with the family and feel we should keep quiet and let them deal with it in their own way. Has anyone else had this type of problem?

Anniebach: there are simply no words, so hugs and unbelievable admiration. I honestly don't see how you've survived, let alone remained so articulate & willing to take part in life. You're certainly a model to me and, I'm sure, to all who read your story. The celebs who whinge about 'brave battles' with appendix scar/weight gain during pregnancy/fractured eyelash horror need to learn about you.

Anxiousgran: you very courageously started an intelligent, well-written thread about a deeply painful, confusing, and still tainted-by-shame subject. If that's being 'anxious,' then the world needs more anxious people. Lots of them.

You're right that there's a very drastic double-standard, & about the time it's going to take. Instinctively I want to say 'don't pay the name-calling little gits any mind,' but no matter how much one may say 'sticks and stones ...' the words do hurt. It's absolutely, hugely true that they are the ones with the real problems, and that there's probably no such thing as sanity as most people see it. Thank God for that! A close look at what most people watch on television will give a good idea of just how 'sane' they are, and how qualified to judge others!

I really hope what I'm about to say won't put people off. Will seem horrendously black-painted ... it's for a reason, I just don't know if I can manage to get it across.

For one thing it'll be all over the shop, I'm afraid (nothing new for me!), as you & many others have written things that struck chords, bruises, and open wounds. But that's good; wounds kept covered too long can't heal.

I can't tell you what a connection I felt to everything you wrote, A.Gran, especially about feeling you've got to keep it to yourself. Not only re. myself, but as advocate & caregiver for so many friends & family members with depression/bi-polar/various shades of the psychological spectrum, & with things like strokes, dementia, reactions to non-psychological Rx, which can be (often are) mistaken for emotional problems.

It can feel much 'safer' to keep it under wraps. Like Anniebach & many others here, I've seen terrifying misdiagnoses, people forced onto medications that make their lives hell, twisted narcissistic 'medical professionals' who positively enjoy the pain they cause under the guise of 'caring' ... oh, how many of them are past masters of the ice-cold 'We only want what's best for you, why are you being so obstructive?' game. Just as many who conducted the Inquisition showed such tender concern for those on the rack ...

The more we fall into the silence=safety trap, the more these things will keep happening. Innocent people will keep being victimised. Sadly, that will never stop as some people will just always be horrid. But we're living in the very early stages of what really is a sea change. All of us are playing a part in this in some way whether we know it or not, I think. Imagining it's something that only happens to others, or just ignoring it, affects the future as much as advocating or campaigning. It will take generations, as it's been kept in the shadows from the dawn of civilisation. It will be an uphill fight, but finding some way to speak out ... & keep speaking, & never let anyone shut us up ... is the only hope for ourselves & the future.

My experiences have left me convinced that the relative newness of this is a double-edged sword: it's wonderful that in some ways attitudes really are changing for the better. On the other hand a lot of doctors & therapists are using a pose of 'it's not taboo anymore, so take these pills, admit you're bi-polar even though there's a possibility you may be developing dementia, well you may have a history of strokes but I happen to want to label you aggressively bi-polar instead of doing a simple scan to find out what might be happening ... you really must get over this stigma about mental illness & I'm going to write God knows what in your chart about your attitude. This is the brave new world, now swallow.'

And even when it is genuine mental illness they can find the most subtle and hurtful ways to make those suffering feel sub-human.

None of this sounds very encouraging, does it? In a roundabout way I mean quite the opposite. I've seen so many people changed & actually saved by professional help. Lives completely turned round from suicidal misery to joy. It's because the dangers are so very dangerous, because I feel so strongly about the 'baddies,' that I shone the light on them so strongly. We can't give into them, either by silence or by consent. It's a form of rape, what some of them do.

But for all the horrors I've written of, there are so many people who really devote their lives to helping those who often seem impossible to help. Lots of knights in very banged-up armour who don't stop fighting. I don't know how they do it, but they do. If you feel you need help, don't let me frighten you off. Just remember that not only is there no shame in seeking help, there's equally no shame in admitting that whoever's helping you may not be any good at what he's doing, possibly a downright menace, or simply may not be the right one for you.

It's so difficult to find good help these days ...!

For anyone who isn't comfortable talking to doctors, please try support groups, churches, the Samaritans, GN ... anyone, anywhere. If your doctor is disrespectful about the subject, won't listen, or attempts any form of control/coercion, change doctors if at all possible. (After attempts at reasoned discussion, of course.) Easier said than done, I know, but some of these people will go on keeping us in the Dark Ages no matter how modern the guise. This is absolutely one of the most important rights to stand up for ... and it's also the most difficult.

Mental illnesses are, as others have written, physical illnesses. Just as you wouldn't stand for a doctor who refuses to listen to the symptoms of a virus or puts your arm in plaster when you've broken your leg, you shouldn't put up with one who isn't decent or safe about your psychological health.

Crikey. I really didn't mean to seem a crusading virago for therapy. Not everyone needs it & it's definitely not for everyone. But anyone who feels any atom of an idea that they want or need it shouldn't have to be afraid. It shouldn't be thought of as any different from someone with a torn ligament going to a doctor. When I read about doctors using the phrases A.Gran wrote of ... I'm sorry ... so many memories of so many people I love just flooded me. I can't bear to think of anyone needing or wanting help & not feeling safe in seeking it, or being taken advantage of.

There is help, there is hope. Really.

Oh dear, if you didn't need therapy when you started reading this, you probably do now!

Many members of my family take St John's Wort, Vit D and also use Essential Oils to cope with various issues including SAD because of the concern of possible side effects of some drugs. Post stroke I have very much needed this help and now my DH following the dreadful car crash is also benefiting to a degree.. He is suffering from PTSD and is receiving CBT and EMDR Therapy. He is totally floored by the fact that he needs help and I think that this is a part of being brought up to 'get a grip' and other such unhelpful terminology and in addition being in one of the services I think is another factor. I do talk about these issues and on the plus side we have been wonderfully surprised by the love and understanding shown to us by family, friends and acquaintances. Professional help has been amazing and sympathetic.

I do think that the fact that the young royals have opened up about the issues they have faced has been very positive and helpful. It is good that it has made some people think a little more deeply and it matters not whether their problems were triggered by grief or a form of PTSD or any other labelling. These issues affect anyone and everyone and their having money to throw at their problems does not make them easier to bear and will never ensure a 'cure'.

My heart goes out to everyone here who is struggling with mental illness or has in the past. And of course, to those who have loved ones who are going/have gone through this or who have lost a loved one due to mental illness. So much sorrow here, but so much beautiful support, too!

Anxiousgran, if I had a health problem I didn't feel I could talk to my doctor about, I would look for a new doctor. Is that possible?

Anyhow, as pps have said, you can certainly open up here. (((Hugs)))

anxiousgran, there are several here who are grieving, nursing sick partners, sick children, suffering with anxiety and or depression , lonliness , troubled, you couldn't have opened up to kinder, more caring people . You can relax and open up here x

Have just read over the thread again. It would be good for anyone who would like some insight into mental health issues to read, there's so much in here.

I put the post up just to get out how I am feeling and didn't expect much response. Thanks for all your insight and sharing painful experiences and humour too. It's great support.

Anniebach, thanks for joining in. I am so sorry that one person has had to bear such things.

Lots of you are struggling still, too.

Thank you overthehills, I listed them to show there are many causes for mental illnesses , apart from post natal depression my illnesses were reactions to life events and also how we have moved forward from the sixties and seventies when we were pumped with Valium, Librium etc , the big mistake with these was the fact they were prescribed for a month, one felt calmer then boom one felt worse, the doctor upped the dose, it was later when the truth about withdrawal side effects were made public but so many were then dependant on them

Anxious I hope you feel supported enough on here to come back whenever you need to. We’ve nearly all got some experience of mental illness -my DH suffers from depression as well as the two friends with PS - so I really hope it helps you to feel that you’re not alone.
Good post G23 - some new insights for me.
Oh Annie I can’t tell you how sorry I am for those awful experiences in your past - you have had/are having so much to cope with. for all of you.

Whoops, didn't edit properly, mean I hope I don't have to take meds for ever.

Sorry I couldn't contribute to this thread yesterday, I couldn't get to the computer.

I'm so glad I posted this to gransnetters; I don't have anyone else to confide in. DH is great, but after all these years he just wants me to be 'positive', and I understand it's hard for families to live with someone else's mental illness.

I've had counselling of different types and it did work in that I can go out to places - gym, yoga class, some community do's. I do have to go alone though, and I think it would be more fun sometimes to have someone else.

I'm taking medication at the moment, and I'm not sure if it's really doing anything. Before I was discharged from my psychiatrist he said variously not to stop medication when thing weren't going well, as you never knew how much worse you'd be without it. Conversely not to stop when you were feeling well either, in case you had a relapse....

Hope I'm expected to take it for ever.

Thank you, g23, especially for the expression "physical changes in the brain" because it confirms my feeling that mental health issues are just as physical as other health issues so, in a sense, we shouldn't be categorising them differently.

Granny23 - an excellent post. Thank you.

Yes I agree granny23 but prozac did cause some to take their lives . What concerns me is the power of drug companies , so often a miracle drug has arrived , is prescribed with disasterous results

Obviously not AB but equally obviously the RIGHT medication for the individual person is infinitely better than none. Sometimes you have to try medication that does not suit in order to arrive at a prescription that does.

Medication which causes hallucinations are better for the patient than no medication granny23 ?

Granny23, an excellent post.
I can empathise with many here. I suffered post natal depression after two of my children. My mother who should have known better, (she was an ex midwifery sister) used to tell me to give myself a shake.

I post this with some trepidation as what I am going to say runs counter to many other opinions but is 'how I see it' after a lifetime of coping with a DM and MIL with mental health problems and suffering Clinical depression myself.

Firstly, I believe the answer to the question of why folks are OK to talk about and empathise with those with physical illnesses but not those with mental health problems is that if you, yourself are a sufferer or living daily with someone else who has this problem, then you cannot, for the sake of your own sanity, afford to take on board, or become involved with someone else's problems.
Whilst, say amputees or blind people can gain enormous support and companionship from meeting up with people in the same boat, this is not true for those whose mental health is fragile and can be easily tipped over by becoming too concerned/involved with others in the same boat.

I observed this in a self directed support group for women with depression who met fortnightly in our office's meeting room. They used to arrive bright and chirpy, but no matter what the theme or topic for the session - anything from having their nails done, through relaxation exercises, every session degenerated into an exchange of sad stories, almost a competition of 'my experience is worse than yours' until they went their separate ways miserable and depressed. There was also an underlying ethos of 'It is the medication that causes the problems, come off it and you'll feel much better, like your old self.'

When I saw a wonderful Clinical Psychologist, who treated me as a sentient human being rather than a 'patient' he explained many things. He told me that a person with a mental health problem is not the best person or in the best position at that time to judge whether medication is appropriate or not. He deplored the tendency of the media to report scare stories rather than give prominence to the many positive improvements in medication and therapy. He repeated the mantra that I learned as a trainee Counsellor that counselling cannot work if the person cannot, for whatever reason, fully engage with the Counsellor. Therefore, a period on medication to get the patient on an even keel was usually necessary before they could benefit from counselling.

He also made the point that it is easier, in terms of self esteem, to blame the treatment or medication for your woes or failure to improve, than to accept that you have an on-going illness or condition, which many still consider to be shameful or due to weakness or inability to 'pull yourself together'.

Finally, my recent experience of 'living with (DH's) Dementia' which is also a Mental Health illness has highlighted that people have a very different perception of dementia than other mental health problems. Everyone seems to accept that Dementia can affect anyone, including the 'brightest and best' and that it is caused by physical changes in the brain which have nothing to do with the sufferer's character, or life style. I wish there was the same acceptance of the causes of other mental health conditions/illnesses. On the bright side, whereas the progress of Dementia can be slowed it is, currently, incurable, many other Mental Health problems can be successfully alleviated or completely cured by modern medicine.

Annie:
"This is the danger of lumping all mental illnesses under the same umbrella."
Because not much was known about the subject until recently, most people have little information. So you can't blame them.
Perhaps what is needed is some kind of public educational programme. To set this up would involve a lot of work. Can the NHS spare the time and money?

Thank you Wally x. I have just explained why I spoke of her death. my daughter had bipolar yet it was said to me last December - did she inherit the illness from you !

This is the danger of lumping all mental illnesses under the same umbrella.

My post 20.04 was an attempt to show the different reasons why people suffer mental illness . What I experienced would hopefully be treated differently today . I was suffering PTSD. I then experienced post natal depression. Later grief led to a mental illness . The treatment for these was shock treatment, Valium and anti depressants which led to more problems .

Anniebach So sorry to hear about your daughter.

Attitudes are changing anxiousgran. I met a dear old friend of mine in a supermarket years ago and we chatted and he seemed absolutely fine, but when I said to him how are you he said to me they want to send me to the funny farm Wally to see what's what. Those were his exact words. Funny farm didn't seem to matter to him and it didn't to me because of the context in which it was said. I'm not sure if he is even alive now but he was a lovely intelligent man that I worked with for many years and I don't know anyone that has derided him.

Anniebach, sending you heartfelt sympathy. You’ve been through so much. We are struggling right now with our DD’s relapse, after a number of years of good health, into paranoid delusions, acute anxiety, depression, anorexia and agoraphobia. It’s agonisingly painful. Sharing with others doesn’t solve the problems but it does help. At least you know you’re not alone. I hope, anxiousgran, that sharing on this forum will encourage you to open up to others. You’ll find many people will be very sympathetic and will often open up about their own experiences. And in time, hopefully, your son will come to have a greater understanding of what you’ve been through. To better times.

I do hope that those phrases (basket case etc) were not said to YOU or your OH or said in your presence. You say that they are people you know but they are obviously unaware that you suffer from some 'issues'. I wonder in what context those phrases were used, I mean, they're not usually heard in ordinary everyday conversation as often as you yourself heard them uttered. As for your GP using the words 'head-banger', that's quite shocking. I can't conceive of any GP in my surgery using that language to any client, whether he knew of their mental health problems or not. It's just not educated language.
Not being familiar with any issues posted by other GNs on this thread, I can't offer solutions but I hope that you find a person or local group you trust and can talk to freely and frankly, instead of keeping it all to yourself.
You might reach out to your friends in the background and suggest meeting for lunch or coffee, a sort of 'catch up'. If you start it now, then you will have become more at ease with each other by the time better weather arrives and you can enjoy getting out more.

Anniebach you have had to endure far more than your fair share of horrific events. I’m so, so sorry