Should we interfere?

This situation is becoming more and more intriguing.
Somebody, or several somebodies aren't telling the whole truth.

Why would your daughter take a new partner into her house and have children with him without knowing his financial situation and have discussed what each can contribute to the household before committing to each other? Why would you agree to give money willynilly without also knowing the full situation for many years You are all being taken for a ride of your own creating. How can he refuse to discuss/reveal his true financial situation? He should have been shown the door years ago, or better still, never have been allowed inside in the first place. You are all mugs but really you should know that yourselves and it doesn't matter how nice he or his mother is. Time to have a family meeting review as it's close to the end of the financial year and insist on the truth.

This all seems very strange - have you met his parents, has your daughter, how do you know he is a professional man if you don't know what he does? How can you live with someone for 5 years and have no clue what they do, here we constantly chat over what everyone is doing and when the men all get together business is usually their conversation, retired or not. I can see your OH as Grandad is very worried so the only offer I would make is to take the GC away for a week in the Summer otherwise no. Do ask him point blank what he does and how its going see what happens. PI good idea but expensive. You and OH need to get a strategy and get a little nosey.

Definitely sounds odd to me ....would investigate the gambling theory ...having been married to a compulsive gambler some years ago, this sounds familiar ! His employer suggested he join GA which he did, but as with any addiction, unless it is the addict who wishes to join, it will have no effect ! Like you D I paid all the bills and the mortgage as he had stopped doing so .....our daughter was in a little private school that I paid for ....I bought all the furniture etc for our new house ......only given money when he had a win on the horses. Terrible time ! He then left me for the local barmaid and I sold the house (Long story, but made sure I got the lot, house and contents)....after I bought another house outright and moved hundreds of miles away, I had a call from his new woman one day in tears asking me why I hadn't told her he was a gambler ! ...now why would i do that !

Companies House is a good idea ....gives you details of all directors of a company balance sheets, profit, loss, money in bank, etc and when last accounts filed ....I use this to locate my daughter ...like you , I paid for my D to go to Uni for four years, bought her a car, paid for holidays, flights out to see me when I moved to Spain, paid her rent and an allowance every month ....even offered to buy her a small house when I sold mine ......however, when I became an OAP and she had a very good job I said sorry, cannot do much for you financially anymore ....final crunch was when she e mailed 10 years ago to say she and her then boyfriend were coming on holiday to France (where I live now) and bringing his two small children ......I said ah lovely ! you can come and stay and I will pick you up from the airport ! planned all the things we could do, beach, activities etc .....no word from her. Tried to contact her for dates et ,,,,no answer ,,,,struck me off contact with all her social media sites ....no word ever since May 2008 .....which leads me to the only conclusion that she expected me to say,as I usually did, that I would pay for everything ! SO ...if you don't mind losing all contact with your D and the GC's ...tread carefully ! My D (discovered via Companies HOuse online) is now apparently living in a large house (looked at that online too...Zoopla) with someone else and there is a photo of a child aged about 6 or 7 could be hers, could be his, no idea !...looked him up too ...Companies HOuse as well .....so at least I know where she is and just hope she is happy !!! All I do know is that if, when I get infirm and need care, after my house is taken by the authorities to pay for it they will pursue her once the money is gone !!!! I WOULD hire a private investigator if only to put your mind at rest ...AND I would pay no more money ..but you could suggest to your DH that you put money aside in a seperate account to help if disaster strikes for your daughter o GC's, without your D knowing That way you would then be able to help, but she must not know about the account unless necessary once the sponger leaves !!

Not sure if this is interference. Your daughter asking for support which you provide. MAybe he gambles, maybe he's just bad with money, maybe he has ex-wife, maybe he doesn't see a problem. You sound really lovely parents and grandparents which he enjoys. Not sure why your daughter thinks this is your problem. Just stop giving out the money and let them sort themselves out. As long as children happy the adults will have to be...adult. I know how hard that will be for you. I have many times with three children had to be 'cruel to be kind'. Very best wishes.

Me too MissAdventure me too. ?

Google his name and see what pops up for a start

It's not an honest relationship if your daughter (and indeed you and your husband) has/have no idea what kind of work he does and D has no idea of his income.
Why doesn't she ask his ex g/f?
What friends came to their wedding?
Does he ever go out and with whom?
Male friends?
The PI sounds a good bet. Try to get a female as they are usually better at sniffing out inconsistencies in stories and could even befriend the ex g/f and make some headway there without breaking cover...so to speak.
There must be some trail on his computer or mobile so is there any way these can be accessed when he's out of the house? If they have a joint account then D would know what payments come in. If it's separate then that's harder but there would be statements on his phone if not hard copy.
There is also HMRC. He would have to declare any earnings.
Maybe D doesn't want to rock the boat by knowing the truth. If they can't manage on TWO INCOMES plus the thousands you have lent both of them, then there is something mighty wrong which needs investigating.
I think you've been totally foolish in propping them up to the extent that you mention, it almost sounds unbelievable and your DH needs to take off those rose coloured glasses and get a reality check. An adult mother of two children should be running her own life, not relying on you, her parents.
He's either keeping a secret family, has an online gambling habit, or has some dodgy investments going on such as Bitcoin or similar.
If he was doing coke then surely D would know as he would need to collect it or have it delivered.
A reputable PI is the way to go, pref ex police, meantime, say nothing to D about your plan, just don't hand over any more money...not a penny. You are being had.

I am with all those who say stop paying for holidays and any other luxuries you are currently paying for.

You say your daughter is supporting herself, her children and her partner, so I don't understand why you are worrying about her mortgage - is she not able to manage paying that?

If you have LENT your daughter and her partner money, either jointly or separately it is not interfering to ask when you can expect them to start paying back some of it. If you have GIVEN them money or they reasonably could have felt that what you call a loan was a gift, then you are facing a more difficult conversation with them.

I would sit my daughter down and tell her I no longer am in a position to pay for holidays etc. and offer to go through her finances with her, or go with her to her bank or building society if she needs to discuss matters with them. In no circumstances should you agree to stand guarantor for a loan or a new mortgage.

Try not to sound critical of her way of managing or of her partner, but it should be possible to ask nicely whether her partner's business is in financial difficulties. Tell her that you are willing to do what you can to help (except lend any more money, or pay expenses) but that you do not feel you can help very well, as you do not understand her precise situation.

I am very much afraid your daughter's man is a con man, but if he is, she will need to realize that for herself, as anything you say on that subject will offend, as it will if you ask whether he gambles, drinks, is paying child support to children you have never been told about, or any of the other possibilities that are keeping you awake at night.

I hope you manage to have a constructive and friendly talk with your daughter. Do ask her next time she moans, what she is going to do about the situation? If she says what can I do? or I don't know then ask for details so that you can advise her.

Maybe I'm just tight fisted but why do people pay for holidays...flights etc. These are adults and need to be treated as such. I let my grown children stand on their own two feet. I say withdraw the readily accepted gifts and I'm sure he will find the money some how. Let them grow up

My daughter was married to someone who was always short on money even though he made good money. We would help with his broken car with promises of money paid back. He would say my daughter bounced her checks at the bank and we would give them money to cover the fees. Well twelve years later I find out he’s spending money on marijuana and beer regularly. She’s now divorced from him and he still has no money .

Surely there are issues here with your daughter! How can she take so much money from her elderly (?) parents, with, apparently, no concern for your life? Helping financially on a regular basis in these circumstances should not be a long term thing, but paying for holidays etc seems frankly ridiculous to me. She is not a child. These adults are not going to become independent if they are financed and over-indulged by you and your husband.

Don't get pi involved without daughter's ok, the results could cause a rift between the two of you. Why isn't your DD doing more to find out what's going on with partner's business and money situation- surely after five years she should be pushing for info. Is it possible your continuous 'help' means DD doesn't really have to deal with her own problems.

I think you should stop giving them money certainly for holidays etc. I know it is hard when you see your daughter worrying about money and we have been in the same position with our daughter when she worries about money for childcare costs, car bills etc and we have paid for holidsys as otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford it. but our son in law is the main wage earner so we have no worries on that score. can you suggest to your daughter you help her with budgeting? is she even aware of where her partners money goes? maybe he has debts or an online gambling problem in which case you are enabling him. is she happy with him otherwise?

Was he self employed before he met your daughter. Could there be big debts from the past he still has to pay. A lot of people these days are simply forced into self-employment by the system, and often if given the choice would prefer to be an employee of a company rather than have to do this. Many people run into cash flow problems in self employment and it's very difficult getting on an even keel again. I would tell your daughter next time she talks to you about this that it is time for them as a couple to have some serious conversations about their finances, and you feel that by helping them out as you do with holidays etc. you are in fact not helping them but allowing them to bury their heads in the sand. Maybe your daughter does know more about this situation than she is letting on to you. Stop being so generous and see how things develop.

if his business is a Ltd Company the accounts are viewable to anyone .Online now I think but certainly from companies house

This does not make sense . Allegedly he works all hours but has no money? He owes you and your daughter thousands so where has that money gone.?I would say enough is enough right now but I am not you or your daughter .HOW do you know this man is not in debt ?or may even have a child/family elsewhere? Do you know everything abut him.
You clearly need professional advice.Do not leave it any longer make the CA or a solicitor you and daughters next step.

Well, if we don't find out I think I'LL hire a private detective! I couldn't live with wondering, I'm too nosy (for my own good, probably!)

Good question, Looby!

Tell, I'm not against the idea of a pi. But I think dd has to be the one who takes this step or, at least, she needs to say yes to it. Not everyone is appreciative when mum shows up with proof that hubby is no good.

Lots of really good advice, but I have a friend who has two daughters both well over 40 and both on benefits. They expect to have holidays abroad, public school fees paid all b y their aged Dad. He believes it is his duty to pay so that his GCs and DDs have everything they want. I think Belinda might have a problem persuading her husband to back her up.

But I do hope she will keep us posted about how things pan out. And Good Luck.

immediately

Next time he asks for money, ask to see a copy of his business accounts and his tax returns so that you can be sure he will be able to pay it back immediately. If he won't show them, it is either because there is money going elsewhere or that there is simply not enough money to make the business worthwhile. If he does show them, you can make a better assessment of what is happening.
If he takes offence, just say that you are sorry but you don't have enough money to simply give it away without knowing what is happening.

What sort of work does this man do?

Such a lot of possible explanations for this situation have been offered by grans and all, some or none of them may be right. It could be as simple as the fact that he is really hopeless with money. There is also good advice about the need to tread carefully because of the possibility of long term estrangements.

I feel that you and your husband need to have a really frank discussion with your daughter and to make it clear to her that the current situation cannot continue. The only thing you and your husband can control in this situation is the flow of money. Actions such as asking to see your son in laws tax returns or employing private detectives are bound to end up badly for everyone.

You and your husband need to be supporting your daughter to manage this situation, hopefully jointly with her husband. The first step is your daughter and her husband recognising that they have a big, serious financial problem and are in danger of losing their house if nothing changes. Their current situation is simply not sustainable.

They are grown ups now and they are responsible for providing a home, food, etc for their family. Holidays are an optional extra. If they can't afford them they need to find other family activities that cost less and not expect grandparents to be paying for them. A saying my 3 adult children have heard many times and is now something of a family joke - "welcome to the real world."

Seeing a financial counsellor would be a good first step. The counsellor will take a professional view of their situation and, working with them, will devise management strategies. The counsellor can also ask the hard, maybe very personal questions that are better coming from someone outside the family. There may well be things that your son in law does not want his in laws to know. It will be up to your daughter and son in law what they want to share with you.
Good luck to all of you.

Read earlier the suggestion re private detective... the idea was poo pooed...
I disagree... friends daughter married an american who ... long story short... very shockingly turned out to be a bigamist... and she found out through the help of a private detective...
10 years later she is happily married to someone else...

so do not disparage professional help...