Should we interfere?

Maybe his business is in trouble and has been for some time, and he is throwing good money after bad into it.
You would think though, that it would be difficult to maintain normality under most of the situations suggested
I have just thought: do you think your daughter may know or suspect where the money is going? Perhaps her 'moaning' is her way of hoping you may ask her outright, so she can tell you?

Oh my goodness, it’s one of those days for me - I see someone has already suggested a private investigator.

If he works from home, is he a Ltd company? If so, you can check Companies House and see his accounts. It’s all out there for everyone to see. I was shocked a year or so when I discovered how many websites have my name and other details about me displayed because I am the company secretary of a Ltd company. No hiding place.

Belinda

I posted in the wrong thread (Suport for Estrangement). Sorry!
I have no idea how to cut and paste from my IPad so I’ll summarise - suggest you use the money you are subsidising the family with to employ a private investigator. Armed with as much information as you can supply them with, they can report back to you re his movements. It may not be a good outcome but you cannot let this situation continue,

What exactly is the nature of this man's business? If he's self employed he should just have filed a tax return, so my advice would be to suggest your daughter asks to see it and then if it demonstrates that he's really frittering his time away and not earning much he should be urged to get another job.

What a very odd situation. There have been occasions when a DD has had a moan about a spouse and I have been very clear indeed telling her she must talk to him about it and not me as I have no wish to take sides.

If there is a financial problem in their home then THEY must talk about it between themselves. I really think you should push her back towards dealing with this as a couple. Say you are sorry that things are difficult and that you care very much, but that it is not your role to come between them in any way and it is a problem that they must solve together as a couple. I understand your OH's desire to prop things up in some way, but marriages are made by solving life's problems together.

I think that you are too financially involved as well. Be very clear that you funds are dwindling - try to get your OH onside with this, by explaining to him that by helping out you are perpetuating an unacceptable situation.

Imo, the next time dd "moans," you need to tell her she needs to work this out with sil or perhaps a financial advisor. If you don't feel like you can get out of the middle financially just yet, you still can get out of the middle emotionally.

Stop the family vacations. Let dd know it's because you're money's running low. This may wake her up to take action.

If anyone hires a detective, it should be dd. If you do it, it might cause conflict between you and her.

I suspect this man comes from a comfortable background, probably privately educated, hence the professional veneer, and is attempting to run some sort of consultancy, financial business from home, only he isn't very good at it. His cavalier attitude to borrowing and cheerfully accepting money suggests he is used to money to support his lifestyle being available, just not earning it himself. I expect his very nice mother is subsidising him too.

Your daughter really needs to wake up to the situation she is in and insist on knowing what exactly, if anything, he is doing. Is he using her house as his business address, security for loans, etc? She sounds happy to accept support from her father in the same way in the same way as he does.
You are right to be concerned.

I'm afraid I would not be throwing money at this family daughter or not if I wasn't told the reason for their shortfall.
I agree with tanith you are enabling this situation to continue. You have worked hard for your money and deserve more respect than this.

I suspect that he's either not earning very much from his supposed business, it is in some sort of trouble, or he has huge historic debts. Though I wouldn't rule out the coke, and it could be a combination. It is also astonishing how much careless people, especially those who want to impress 'friends' or business acquaintance can get through.

Of course, the first issue is with your DH. It is possible that the way to tackle this (and I suspect you've already tried) is to point out that it is really this man that your money is keeping. If you are careful about your suggestion, your daughter will not 'go short' (whatever that means in your world) but her partner's current lifestyle won't be maintained.

If however, your husband won't tackle the issue head on, then maybe you need to protect whatever assets / income you have yourself before it all goes into this Cloud Cuckoo Land.

OldMeg i agree with you, if this man is up to something you would have evidence to show the daughter and every valid reason to withdraw from supporting them financially.

There is so much of this going on now adays, parents handing over cash all the time and grown up children expecting it as their right. I wonder if they will do the same with then next generation, or will even be in the position to do so if they can't manage now.

There is a lot to be said for the old saying, 'never a lender or borrower be' .

No not joking. A PRIVATE detective is just that. She would find out what’s going on with this man’s finances and other infuriation on his background. He would not know he was being investigated and would only report back to his employer.

This family isn’t very ‘happy’ with the existing situation and there is a strong suggestion of something odd in this man’s life. How else would they find out if he was a bigamist, a secret gambler or where his money is going?

Are you joking Meg? I don't think this woll help the family's happiness!

Hire a private detective.

It is not helpful to maintain anyone in a style which they cannot attain by their own efforts. It may make your DH feel good but what happens when the money runs out or you are no longer there to finance them. By interfering in their finances you are effectively disabling the whole family and could even be creating big problems for them by disguising what life is really like. Is it that you are still working that you can afford to do this? If so have you planned for your own retirement? I think I might be saving money for the future myself if it was causing such disquiet.

I would have to do some checking up on him.. there must be some explanation.
Does he have a joint account with your daughter? Is she out of the house whilst he is home alone?

No, this is not a wind up. I am genuinely worried. My daughter and I have talked and she cannot get to the bottom of the problem. He won't tell her anything. I don't think he is or was married as daughter knows his last steady girlfriend. He drinks a bit but I don't think he gambles or has a drug problem. He works from home so she knows where he is most of the time. We've met his Mother who is very nice.
The whole thing is a mystery. Unfortunately my husband worries about his daughter all the time and isn't willing to see his granddaughters go short so he and I are at odds over this. He must be earning something but we can't force him to tell us where it goes.

Good advice on here so far.

Sounds as if you are being used by both of them, they are adults and are responsible for their own lives. Start saying no and stick to it.

Really, you are interfering by supporting this man to do whatever it is that is taking his money. I wouldn't want to offend anyone, but a cocaine habit is a huge, never-ending expense.

Belinda If this is not a wind up it would seem that he is running two families and probably on your money. I expect most men would be pleasant and friendly to anyone who is financially supporting them apparently without question. Do you think that your daughter is smelling a rat and 'moaning' to you is her way of asking whether you think that something is not right? Does she know where he is working from, what he actually does etc? Discreet enquiries would seem to be in order and if as suspected things are not right it will probably not take very long to have it confirmed. As for asking when you could say enough is enough - really?
I find it a fairly extraordinary story and if it is as you say then I am afraid you are a soft touch and probably very gullible and have been taken for a right royal ride. I would say that it has gone well past the point where it should have been stopped.

I was wondering the same as ninathenana a second family? or gambling there’s surely something not being told isn’t there ?

Unless you stop subsiding them you will all be homeless. You have to stop enabling her to moan and him to be a free rider.

Is he a gambling his money away?

Good advice above.

I’d tell her in a casual manner that your pensions (or wages?) aren’t stretching as far as they once did, and reluctantly you’ll have to economise. Say it a couple of times, in different ways, preferably when sponger man is around, but keep it light and casual.

Then STOP helping them out, with apologies and ‘I’m sure you’ll understand’ thrown in, if they query this. You can’t support two households especially when it seems one half of the partnership is not pulling his weight.

I hope the house is on your daughter’s name???

I think you have to begin with her.
Think about the 'moaning' - is it serious or a passing comment? It is very easy to 'moan' in passing about something you don't want to change.
Also, do you think the partner thinks this is what parents do? I have known quite a few people who assume that parents pay for holidays (and even houses!)- they accept and say thank you nicely, but don't think it out of the ordinary at all!

Once clear in your own minds, I think you have to begin with her, at a time when the children aren't around - so may need setting up carefully. Then say, without complaining, that you are reviewing your finances(this keeps it less personal and critical). You can say that you have no wish to interfere, but she must be clear how much money you are able / prepared to offer.

Say - we are prepared to offer, for example:
something like one holiday a year with us (chosen by us), and the kids' swimming lessons as a regular thing.
Say that you would not see her homeless (unless prepared to take her in!) and would maybe cover the kids' nursery fees for a few weeks in an emergency but this cannot be open-ended.

Ask her how she feels about that and how she could organise their lives now that she is clear what can be expected. Say that if she needs other support and help, can she ask, so that you can consider it?

It sounds as if you have a good relationship, and I'm sure she will be grateful to you. Doing it this way means you are not 'interfering' unless asked, but you are talking about what is your concern (ie: your money)

Good luck.