Strange little characters corners along the road of estrangement!

cornishsue, sorry you have been hurt. Of course you are a real family, no one can dictate who a child loves or decide who is more important to them. I think people sometimes act, and talk, like children are possessions and the adults have rights over them and eventually that sort of attitude can cause problems. My MIL was like that so I have some experience of it.

Cornishsue, please don't be hurt by unkind comments. My daughters best friend was adopted as a little baby. SFe met her birth parents, who had marrie by then, she felt no connection, her adopted parents were who she regarded as family. You are their mother.
Yogagirl, Madeline Mc Canns daughter is not with her mother, she could be anywhere in the world going through who knows what. The situation is a million miles away from your granddaughters situation, she is with a mother that loves her. I find it disturbing you keep referring to Nasty sil and good daughter, how you think you could connect feeling like that I don't know. Why was your granddaughter trying to open the door? Was an argument and shouting going on, if so she would just want it to end. Why do you think you were the only one who loved her, was your daughter an uncaring and indifferent mother? If that is the case and she is in a home where no one wants her that is truly tragic.

Cornishsue emotions on threads such as this tend to run higher than on some others, but please do not feel you have to withdraw from a site which should be able to show compassion and support.
I have no wish to get involved in any sort of taking sides, but those of us who have been lucky to enjoy continued good relationships with our AC should show generosity of spirit towards those who are suffering from estrangement and those who can identify all too closely with the thread titles must know how fragile estranged mothers and grand mothers must feel and - feel some empathy as well as sympathy.

I didn't love them as I loved my own

I know adoptive parents love their children as their own

I will leave this thread and forum, Yogagirl and I apologise to everyone else for hijacking. However, before I go can I please, please draw your attention to your above words.

I do not love my (adopted) childen AS my own. They ARE my own.

I have been aware of your agressive and unkind posts to others, particularly over the past few weeks. But I realise this is an emotional situation for you, and also how angry you are. I do have an estranged son myself as well as my mum passing away at Christmas. As two of my adult children have disabilties and as a foster carer, I do not have the opportunity to meet others or see friends. I was hoping perhaps for some support myself on here, but I read your posts and felt so upset. I am sorry for butting in and am very sorry for stiring up trouble and upsetting you more. I will do as you say and will leave now, and sincerely hope you find peace and happiness in your future.

Sorry to anyone else I have also upset and want to say to you all I am struck by everybodies kind, compassionate and supportive posts towards others. I admire you all so much and wish you well.

My apologises.

I am fortunate that this hadn’t happened to me. But I was estranged from my own mother for nearly two years in my 20’s. my mother was a difficult lady! she had, I now recognise, quite bad depression, and was in my teens a heavy (evening) drinker which could make her very verbally Abusive. I could see why this might be though,as my father was disabled through a tragic car accident, and I think she suffered depression after that. since it happened when I was a newborn I don’t remember what she was like before.
She was also very critical and a perfectionist. I was an only child and I think this didn’t help, she always gave me the impression that I hadn’t quite made the grade expected from them and she used to regularly compare me with friends children and their achievements!
That said I knew, and know, that she loved me. my childhood did have love and affection and fun times, and my parents both worked hard to give me all the advantages they could.
however in my late teens/ early 20’s I started to find her griping comments and digs harder to cope with. I was a young women with little confidence, trying to get through uni, and start out in the world. so I decided that for my own mental health, I needed to put space between us, after one especially nasty row when I and my (husband to be) were visiting I walked out and didn’t contact her for nearly 2 years! At the time it was incredibly difficult, I cried a lot, but it gave me time to gather my my inner resources and resilience, and eventually I turned up at her door and we started again and never looked back.
I would say that our relationship was hugely better after the break.we never overtly spoke about it, but she seemed less depressed and had tackled her drinking issues and I was stronger more confident in my own skin and more sure of my own achievements and we didn’t really row again.
This may not be what happens for other people, and everyone’s situation is different; but there are complex reasons for estrangement, sometimes. Lots of the lovely people on here seem to have given the DC great childhoods and its difficult to know why it’s happened to them so I can only speak from my own experience but I hope this will help someone.

Didn't they change her name to his? So it may be he has adopted her.

Yogagirl. I think you need to periodically remind posters on this thread that your estranged daughter married into a Gypsy family. I spent many weeks in hospital in the next bed to a Gypsy wife and we had many long hours of conversation regarding family dynamics amongst this community..
They are ‘different’ to what non gypsys might find acceptable. I can quite understand your fears.

Grannyactivist I really admire the way you are handling what must be a very difficult situation.I hope there is light at the end of the tunnel for you. I am sure there will come a time when your DGC contact you themselves. My friend's son left his wife when she was pregnant and moved across the world. His wife was understandably devastated and cut herself off from his family. My friend sent letters and presents over the years and her patience paid off. She met her DGD at age 14 and they now have a close relationship.

My granddaughter's stepdad's mother is not her grandmother, I AM! The pair of them have done a very wicked thing in ripping my GD away from her real grandmother; ME! One day my precious GD will know the truth and she will hate those who have done such a wicked evil thing to her. They didn't just ripped her away from her real grandmother, auntie, granddad, aunties & uncles, cousins & nephews, no, that wasn't enough damaged to the little mite, grieving for us all, they also took away her name!! One day she will learn what her real name is and take it back!

Please Cornishsue go on a page that is relevant to you and stop stirring up emotions that are too painful to bear!

Cornishsue your situation is completely different to what we are talking about, we are talking about estrangement, not adoption. I am talking about stepfamily not adoptive family, completely deferent subject. Also I am talking about my beloved GD's stepfamily, I am not talking about all stepfamily. I was a step mum to 4 children and I loved them, but I didn't love them as I loved my own.

My uncle & aunt adopted 2 children, a boy & a girl, they have never wanted to trace their biological parents and I, along with the rest of our family, see only my aunt & uncle as their mum & dad, loved and cherished by them always and vice versa

I know adoptive parents love their children as their own and are more than likely much better parents then their biological ones, otherwise they wouldn't have been taken from them. This is a completely different subject to estrangement from your AC&GC and a completely different subject to my GD stepfamily. I also know that some children love their stepdad/mum and they them, but I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about my GD! So if it upsets you to read my story, about my family, about my GD, about my GD's stepdad & his mother's cruelty to my precious GD, don't come on these threads about estrangement, make your own thread on adoption and I will not visit and read, as nothing to do with my life, my situation or my GD or my estD's lives with estrangement!

Yogagirl, I have mentioned this before. But I wanted to let you know how hurtful and upsetting it is to read you talk of "real family" and saying how your granddaughter's step father and his mother (her grandmother) are not her "real family" due to the fact they are not blood related. As an adoptive parent of four children, now adult, and also a grandmother, and a foster carer, I wanted to tell you that my children are REAL,my grandson is REAL- and I am their REAL mother and REAL grandmother. I am so grateful that I remain their REAL mother, and even though my daughter decided to trace her biological family in order to try and get information on a medical issue, myself and her REAL father were beside her when she did this, and if anything has strengthed our very REAL bond.

I am sorry for the horrors you have been through and how much you are hurting, but your words, no doubt unintentially hurt others too.

My GC are all loved and well looked after, but they are always pleased to see me and tell me they love me. Even the teenagers and it isn't automatic with teenage boys. I think your GD is probably very loved, from what I have seen of gypsy people they can be tough on the boys but the girls are made a great fuss of and very protected. Hopefully things will get better and you can rebuild relationships.

Sounds wonderful with your grandson Flump, I would hope this is how my GD would be if we had been allowed.

Well I was certainly the centre of my GD & GS's world and am with my GD from my ND now, as I say along with their mum & dad and siblings of course.

The day I was told to "f* off!" by my nasty s.i.l, my little GD was desperately trying to open the front door for me, looking about for help to open it, trying to open it herself. It must have been locked, as normal she was able. But that scene sticks in my mind & heart, as I think 'was I the only one that gave her love and attention' as she was always so very pleased to see me, giving me hugs and kisses and saying I love you nannies

No I don't agree, not in my case. My teenage grandson comes round after school, tells me things he doesn't want to tell his parents, gets me to take him shopping. The little ones are lovely but as for a relationship I think the teenage years are when a grandparent can be really important as obviously parents are not always the ones they want to confide in.

I certainly don't think grandparents are the centre of a little ones world, that is the parents role not the grandparents.

No I don't dislike teenagers Flump in-fact I look at young girls and boys of all ages, not just the ages of my lost GC, and imagine them as my GC, with a lump in my throat.
The best time between GP & GC is from baby, toddler & pre-school age, this is when the GC really love their grandma or granddad, they are the centre of their little world, along with their parents and siblings. Once they start school, they begin to move in another direct, towards their friends and then after school activities, so gradually spending less time with grandma/dad, only natural.

I'm not saying they love their grandma/dad less, but this is a fact, as told often on GN by those GP still in the lives of their GC. I know my GD and I would have had a special bond forever, but still she would be busy with other things as she grow, same with my GS. Of course it's still tragic & hard to loss them when their older, but those first 6yrs or so are the ones that are magic! Also if their older, less time till they can contact you themselves as they will remember you.

Very sad Grannyactivist I do feel for you. Yes I remember you saying about the phone call at Xmas, that was really wonderful after all that time, so maybe this year your patient waiting will pay off, but what a waste of 12yrs!

grannyactivist, that sounds really promising. I have my fingers crossed for you that it was a first step and there will be more to follow.

Yogagirl I have grandchildren aged from teenagers down to babies, I don't know why you think it would be easier to lose contact with the teenagers. I think knowing someone for 13 plus years makes it harder, well it would be for me. Sad if I was cut off from one of the babies but would be much harder to lose the teenagers as we have such strong relationships. I know the teenagers would miss me, the littlest ones wouldn't notice and the preschoolers would soon forget me.

Do you maybe not like teenagers much?

My daughter is in the same country, but lives three hundred miles away. She got divorced around the same time as our estrangement and I got on very well with her ex-husband. My grandchildren were seven and eight years old when I last saw them and I have made the decision not to try to contact them directly because I don't want to put them in a situation where they may feel disloyalty to their mother.
I do feel very sad that I have a granddaughter that I've never seen, but I have accessed photographs of her and watched her grow - she seems like a sweet little girl and is obviously close to her mum. There are lots of photo's of just the two of them doing nice things together.
On Christmas Day I had an answerphone message from my daughter wishing me a Happy Christmas, so I hope that my continued patience is one day going to pay dividends. My daughter is not a bad person, she had a difficult teenage and was deeply affected when her father left us. I certainly made mistakes as a parent and I feel very sorry that she obviously felt that she couldn't share the difficulties she was going through twelve years ago.

grannyactivist Do you and your estD live in different countries? Yes it's tragic that because your D didn't get on with one family member she then decided to cut herself, and her C, off from her mum and everyone else in the family, that doesn't make sense, she should have just made sure that the person she didn't want to see wasn't at the 'Do' whatever it was or if they were, not go herself, surely that would have been better than a total cut-off!

Do you think her husband had a hand in the estrangement? and as your GC are in their late teens or early 20s, why can't they visit & phone you themselves with no involvement with their mother?

Also Flumb when my D's m.i.l said those words Ooh our first GC she looked at me and said oh, you now what I mean D and I replied that I did.

Footnote;
Of course I know my estD loves her D, my GD, and that her half brother loves her too.

Flumb there was no friction between us, nothing that I knew about, this all started with a huge argument between my D & her H, I was pulled into it by him phoning me every half an hour, until I returned early from my holidays with my ND, to help, by that time my now estD was at my house, absolutely traumatised, as he & his mother had her picked up by the police and put in a mental hospital, where she spent the night!

Flump there are all sorts of different forms of love and to say about competition If you were in my shoes you would understand. What my estD's H & his mother have done to my GD and my D is not love!

Granyactivist thinking about your situation, I now understand how you can 'let go' [for want of a better phrase] as you did have the joy of watching your GC grow to be teenagers, I was robbed of that, if mine had been in my life till then, I would have reacted very differently too. The new baby you have never seen, so no bond there, I'm sure it still hurts though. I spoke to my ND about this, and I said if my estD had another baby it wouldn't effect me at all, strange but true.

Lucklegs try saying that to Madeleine McCann's mother, about whoever is bringing up her precious daughter.

Yogagirl. How do you know you gd is not loved? You can't know that after 5 years. I am sure your d loves her and wants the best for her. Her life sounds very different to yours and mine, but that doesn't mean there is not love there, it will be all she knows, she will have nothing else to measure it by. I don't think that estrangement is done to cause anyone pain and hurt, they just think for whatever reason, which we don't know if they don't tell us, it's the only way to live life their way. After a long period apart I think the harder it is to reconnect. However you can always hope.

I wouldn't condemn someone for being excited when their GC is born, she didn't have that with your GD even if she loves her. Your GD might feel something is missing but she might not. She is with her mother and her half brother so not the same as adoption.

I'm not sure how you measure love, if they love her they love her, it isn't a competition about who loves her most or whose love is best.

I think the reasons for estrangement are complicated, your daughter and her husband might have a very different view, in fact they must have or they wouldn't have done it. Perhaps they thought friction between the adults was damaging and that the negatives outweighed the positives.