Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

Remember that song 'Oh what a night' as someone who is not a fan I was totally hooked. Made our little dogs jump when I yelled with delight at the first goal (even louder than Mr. S.. Felt distraught when Columbia equalised and had shaky hands during the penalty shoot out.

It would have been so unfair if we'd lost because they were a dirty team weren't they. As Mr. S. said, when they stopped fouling and just got on with the game, they were a good side.

Thank you for your comment agnurse. I wouldn't say that we've taken the high road though, just a road that could lead us to a happier, more peaceful and productive life.

DolcelatteI understand where you're coming from. Some posters have been upset by previous comments to the extent that one doesn't feel comfortable posting here at all. It's understandable for us to be wary.

Fair point Dolcelatte - I did take the post at face value, it can be hard to “interpret” the written word can’t it?

Maw, perhaps I may have been a little harsh and the post may have been well intentioned. If I had seen the post in isolation, I would probably have thought so.

However, my remarks were in the context of having read the whole thread and seeing how some of her earlier comments have upset other posters.

What an odd response Dolcelatte to a genuine and, as far as I can judge, kindly intentioned post.
It didn't strike me as anything other than encouraging and positive and reassuring to Smileless and all those who have to live with a heartbreaking situation but refuse to let it drown them.

agnurse, what a crass and insensitive post. It's not like moving on from an old boyfriend or an old job, you know.

I can't decide whether you are just a bit lacking in the emotional intelligence department or what they call on the GN's sister site, Mumsnet, a 'goady fucker'.

Don't they have a 'Momsnet' on the other side of the Atlantic, whose members can be treated to your little pearls of wisdom?

Smileless

I commend you for taking the high road in this unfortunate situation. I admit I don't know the reasons for your estrangement, but I think you're dealing with it in a practical way. You've accepted it and moved on. I think this is a very healthy way of dealing with it.

Iamthank you.

Sparkly we were talking about it last night and as with me, Mr. S. also feels better for having seen ES and GS and not to have felt the way he used too if he did see them.

You're right, we did need to see them to help us both to heal and I think to show us how far we've come. We're all different and sadly some never come to terms with such a loss where others seem to be able to do so.

We have some friends, although we've lost contact over the past couple of years, who lost their 16 year old son in a car accident. He died abroad and wasn't wearing a seat belt.

With their other son, they threw themselves into setting up a charity in his memory and going to secondary schools to stress the importance of taking responsibility for one's own safety. They are an extraordinary family.

Many years ago a friend of Mr. S.'s was killed in a car accident at the age of 18. His poor mother never got over his loss and it cast a shadow over not just her life but the life of her husband and their daughter (her words).

He died some years ago and now, at the age of 92 she still hasn't recovered from the tragedy.

Grieving doesn't have any rules, we all grieve in our own way and I think it's important for us all to accept that we are grieving. Our AC are still living but their loss is, as it is often referred to is a living bereavement and we need to grieve.

Chewbacca I understand your perspective. I have stopped mentioning my estDS and family in everyday conversation for the same reason.

Dolcelatte I understand about having your estranged ones address. My elderly uncle offered to give me my estDS DiLs address, but I stopped him giving it to me verbally.

I am wary of their blaming me for things when they run out of people to blame. I am honestly able to say I don’t know where they live.

Smileless2012 you both survived seeing them, in a way maybe it needed to happen to help you both heal, though I would never go as far as to say it was good. I hope you and DHs healing takes a big leap.

Iam64 you are right, distance emotionally is important. We can’t make ourselves ill eventually through all this.

Smileless, so sad to experience every day as surviving and getting through it. Five years is a long time to live with such painful and debilitating feelings. You’re right though, that’s how it is.
It’s possible to survive, create some emotional distance and live a positive life. That’s your example on this thread. ?

Chewbacca we've had enough of being told it's all our fault and we deserve it from our own AC, we don't need to hear it from anyone else do we.

Of course we generally get that from those who aren't estranged and have to believe it's our fault or it could happen to them too.

How ever long we've been on this journey and regardless of how far some of us have come, every day is about "getting through it" and "surviving" and we can do it ladies, we've come this far.

I'm one who reads, just to know that I'm not on my own Smileless. I don't post much because I couldn't cope with having someone coming on and telling me that it's all my fault or I must have done something to deserve it. I only "came out" very recently because of the arrogant and ill informed analysts who caused even more pain. But it's good to know that there are others out there who have been through this, and still are getting through it and who are surviving.

You're all such lovely ladies. We have our ups and downs on this thread but despite the trials and tribulations, we remain a constant support for one another.

Northernsoul I had no idea that you'd been reading these threads for as long as I've been posting. I remember my first post and I remember watching and waiting to see if anyone would respond. Yogagirl and Celebgran who no longer participate here did and I'll never forget how grateful I was.

I wonder how many do read but feel unable to post. It's good to know that even when you felt unable to do so, you found some comfort in the knowledge that at least you weren't alone.

You're right Luckylegs. We couldn't go on the way we were. I sometimes think we should have moved sooner, but the time has to be right, it has to happen naturally. A slow and gradual realisation that a long and once wonderful chapter in your life has ended and it's time to begin a new one.

Sparkly I've been thinking a lot today about what happened yesterday. It was like having a plaster that's been on for some time ripped off. We think it's going to hurt but when it comes to it, it really isn't anything like as bad as we think it will be.

There's the relief of seeing that the wound we thought would never heal is well on the way to doing so. Even the scar will fade with time, ever present but not as red and angry as it used to be.

crazy thinking of you having more contact with your DS and getting to know your GC at long last makes me.

Smileless so sorry you and your DH have the pain of that experience...

Smileless????????

Smileless, felt so choked this morning at reading your post.
Absolutely agree on how far you (and I) have come.

Remember 2012 and in my anguish found this thread.
You were asking to join the little band of those who’d been ‘cut out’. I was so relieved there were others in my situation.
But I was so distraught, posting would have been impossible.
Yet, reading the posts really helped.

It does take time and going down different avenues and cul de sacs, do realise it’s not over, but we are learning to live a different life.

To all who are estranged and feel desperate, have courage and take tiny steps into the light. Seek out things/people that give you a lift.

?Smileless, I know exactly how you feel. In order to cope in an unnatural situation, you have had to emotionally distance yourself because if you kept on as it is in the first few years it would drive you and those close to you mad. It's like a little barrier round your deepest feelings. It is by no means the end, whatever happens you cannot alter the fact that those little boys are your grandsons and didn't ask for any of this. Your son and wife are still together and hopefully happy because of your gs, that doesn't mean everything in the garden is lovely, they are used to this as you have become. You enjoy your new life as it is and it will get better still on Mr S retirement.

NorthernSoul Iam and Dolcelatte thank you for your kind words.

Gfor me, that's why this thread is so important and beneficial. Sharing our own and sharing in others experiences shows us that we truly are not alone.

I've shared so much here in the 5 years I've been posting. I look back to those posts I made in the first 2 years of our estrangement and can hardly believe that that broken and desperate woman could have come this far. It wouldn't have been possible without Mr. S., family, friends and the friends I've made here on GN.

I understand why you find my response "very hard to take in" that it is in one way "(up)lifting because it proves life goes on but in another it's terrifying".

You're right. It is terrifying to think you could see the son that you adored and be devoid of an emotional reaction but for me, not terrifying when it happened or surprising.

If someone, anyone had told me that one day I would see him and that's how I'd be I'd never have believed them. It's not what I ever wanted, none of this is what we'd have wanted. Maybe it's not what he really wanted either but I guess we'll never know.

It is what it is. Christmas Eve 2012 "you are no longer a part of mine and ..... lives and you are to stay away". In the end we did.

for you all with my thanks for your enduring friendship and support.

My goodness Smileless you really tell it as it is, I am guessing in an effort to help others, dependant on where they are in these situations. Mb not mb you just surprised yourself at how you were able to cope and wanted to share, it is such a big thing in your life. We can never really know how we will respond to something so emotive. At the moment I find it very hard to take in, for you to feel like that. In one way it's lifting because it proves life goes on but in another it's terrifying and I can't put my finger on why. There is nothing special about me for my son or gd to want to keep contact. But the thought of us all getting along with our lives happily without feelings of either resentment or connection just seems not possible. Mb if your eyes had met with your sons it would be different, I don't know. I am happy for you that you seem to have got to a stage where things are becoming normal for you. Another who thinks you deserve a bunch of

Smileless, my heart goes out to you.

But, hand on heart, I don’t think this is the end. Your GS is already wondering about the situation and it is highly likely that he will be in touch one day.

I am not saying have false hope, and absolutely get on with your life and plan a wonderful retirement. He will probably come into your life when you least expect it.

Good luck and thank you for all the support which you give to others on here. You sound like a lovely couple who deserve every happiness.

Smileless, courage, love and strength from you and your husband ?. Take care of yourselves x

Oh Smileless

Morning ladies. I hope you all enjoyed your weekend and the beautiful weather.

We were invited to some old friends yesterday, they're the GP's of our God son and have known us and our boys since they were toddlers.

I spent all of Saturday getting in a real state because they live in the village we used too and I was worried about seeing ES and/or our GC.

Mr. S. suggested that we drive to their house using a slightly longer route so we wouldn't go past ES's house but I said no. I realised I was being silly, it's been 5.5 years now and for the first 4 we lived just down the road from them and I would drive past their house whenever I went out.

As we turned into the road, in the distance I saw a boy about 6 years of old, riding his bike up and down the footpath. Thewas catching his beautiful strawberry blonde hair and I knew it was our eldest GS.

Then I saw our ES in the front garden. Barely recognisable as the handsome care free young man he used to be. I expected my stomach to turn over and my heart rate to increase which is what always used to happen if I saw him but there was no such reaction.

As we drove past our GS it was as of we were driving past any boy of his age. There was no connection which is hardly surprising as we never really knew him and last saw him when he was 8 months old.

Last night I was trying to imagine what it would have been like if things had been different. He wouldn't have to have ridden much further to arrive at our old house, so I was imagining us being there and him turning up to see GM and GD. Just as his father and our DS used to do to see my mum who lives even closer the them than we used too.

Our family name was on the side of Mr. S.'s small van to promote our business, the van we had until the beginning of the year. When Mr. S. told our friend we'd seen them he said 'if only you'd waited and not moved, he'd have recognised his own surname on your van when you drove past and asked questions'.

We know from DS that he was asking questions when he saw them over Christmas, he's old enough to understand that his uncle's parents are his dad's parents, his GP's, who he doesn't know.

I often share with Mr. S. some of the sad stories that are told here on GN, on another site I go on and books that I've read so his response to our friend didn't surprise me.

He said if we'd stayed, one of the things that would have worried him was what the children may have been told in order to keep them away from our house and us.

You never expect your own child to cut you out. You never expect to catch a glimpse of them and have no emotional reaction or to see your GC and have the same lack of reaction.

I don't know if my reaction, or lack of one is a good thing or not. Perhaps it is. The intensity of the pain of ES's loss, the desire to see him and the overwhelming need and desire for reconciliation has abated and along with that the intensity of anger, bitterness and resentment.

We had a lovely day and as we drove out of the village to come home we were both relieved to be leaving and thankful for our lovely new home, lovely neighbours and the new life that we are making.

We are looking forward to Mr. S's retirement which should begin in matter of weeks. That was another time, another life and it's over now. I'm crying as I type because it is sad, too sad to ever be able to express but I know I don't have to try because you'll all understand.

I didn't want to see him but I'm glad that we did. I have a feeling it was for the last time and that's OK too; it's better this way I think for us all.

Ok, who has said these things are acceptable? Not many so far as I can see. There will be a mix of opinion, just look at the political or football threads.

Life is tough for all of us. How many of us get through life without facing a life changing events or experience; who are fortunate in having neither themselves or their loved ones facing significant health, social, psychological, psychiatric or other problems. I can't identify anyone amongst my loved ones, or friends I know well enough for confidences to be safely shared. I don't believe that's because I mix with unstable, difficult people either. It's because we're all human

I agree with your view agnurse that it isn't helpful for us to behave badly. It isn't unusual for people, especially people in distress or at the end of their emotional tolerance, to find a scapegoat, DIL, MIL, husband, mother, sister, brother, former partner - its an endless list. Abrasive, cold and critical comments aren't ok either and if possible, we'd do well to avoid them. Compassion and remembering that s/he who is without sin should cast the first stone, is one of many sayings, biblical or otherwise, that can nudge us into behaving ourselves, if we listen.

I found out my daughter's address today through the internet. I am not going to turn up unannounced or even tell her that I have it. Is that wrong, to want to know where my child lives, in case of emergency or just because I want to think of her somewhere and not in a vacuum?

I genuinely believe that it is her boyfriend who doesn't want us to know where she lives. Interestingly, the Land Registry shows the property as being registered in his sole name, although she told me she had put in money which she inherited from her grandfather.

But of course I can say or do nothing, just try to keep the contact and the love going, and hope for better times ahead.

Actually, Agnurse, my dil has been a source of support to me in this horrible estrangement saga.
We have supported one another as a family.
Unfortunately our DD and SiL don’t want to be part of our family.Sadly we have to accept that.

We have all suffered ill health as a direct result of this trauma.
But in accepting the situation it’s less harrowing.

Which doesn’t mean I don’t think of our DD and her family.
I don’t bear them ill, just what ever is behind this.

Agnurse, you do sometimes express a skewed view.
I understand you are struggling with the estrangement situation and try to see it from another perspective, indeed as most of us who are estranged try to in order of making sense of this very sad situation.