Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

since my last post on Jun 25 I have minded my son's little girl twice ! we only really get called when they need something, but it's ok, better than not at all.
Their second child, another little girl apparently, is due in the next few weeks, and the first was 2 weeks early so she is preparing. I only know this via my daughter who had msgd her to offer some baby clothes she was clearing - and they are both coming to my house this weekend ! Joy !All my grandbabies at once, just as I always hoped they would be. We have no idea if it will last once the baby comes, or whether we go back to now and then when they need us, but I try not to overthink these days.
I wonder if they will reflect on this when they are old and have littlies ? Do you think ? I hope that it happens sooner, while we are still here and can have more time with our littles

Irish "the truth is another country....which they dare not visit" a country that our AC avoid at all costs.

It is so sad when someone searches all their lives for answers as to why they were subjected to such unbelievable cruelty, as a child. Whilst they may now have created the best life they can for themselves in impossible circumstances, that inner child will never be quietened.

Unfortunately, if you were to do as you suggest and write to your mother, the outcome could actually make things even worse. This is a woman who has managed to live with herself for years, without reaching out to you, which would indicate that she is comfortable with her choices, albeit they are probably very far from reality. She could well resent your questions, as they would force her to look at herself, and visit her actions. Although this type of person seldom accepts blame, and may well counter attack with accusations about you. A well known tactic. Unless she has looked deeply into her own life, she will probably consider it an intrusion of her privacy to be questioned about her own upbringing. I would suggest she has not done this or if she has she has excused her actions. Otherwise, she would surely have attempted to make amends.

If you really do feel the need for this contact, please prepare yourself as emotionally as you possibly can Jammy. With people like your mother the truth is another country....which they dare not visit.

If trying to get some answers from your mum is what you really feel you need to do, then you must try Jammy but as with her will, try not to have any expectations.

I understand that you're worried about opening a can of worms but on the other hand, you don't want to wait and then have your mother pass away and be left with questions that you never asked.

Perhaps she was as unfortunate in the parents she had as you have been. If she was, knowing that may help you to come to terms with her abandonment of you, it may explain her total lack of parenting skills and her ability to detach emotionally from her own children. Knowing these things may help to give you some closure then again, you may be left wondering how a mother who experienced a terrible childhood, could inflict the same on their own children.

Have you discussed this with your husband? Talking to family and friends who really know you would be a good idea as they're better qualified to know if you'll be able to deal with whatever such a discussion with your mum may bring.

Luckylegs is right, "sometimes there are no answers", only more questions.

Take care Jammy.

It is so sad you are still looking for answers. From her history you know you will not get answers. What matters is now, how you are with your family, let the past go, you luckily survived it, move on, life is too short. Be the mother you would have wanted. Sometimes there are no answers, I loved my girl from the moment she was born, my children came first, yet I have been left behind, I gave up thinking why, because sometimes there isn't a reason. She knew and knows I love her, if a thing that I don't know about upset her, it didn't take much to find an excuse, not a reason to cut me out. I could never treat a child the way you were treated, there is no excuse. You really are better off looking to your own family, don't let the past cloud what you have, because then you will be a victim and you're not.

I'm thinking of writing to my mother to ask what happened in her own childhood to make her the person she was? But I'm wary of opening a can of worms. I can't help wondering though. Something clearly happened because she had a chip on her shoulder all her life. I'm vary aware I have a limited chance to get answers before she dies.

Hear, hear Smileless compassionately said.

Morning ladies. I remember your heartbreaking posts Jammyyou've lived through a terrible ordeal.

I think Luckylegs is right, don't expect anything in terms of an inheritance and having been through so much already, try not to dwell on it.

We love our ES, he's our son and despite all that he's put us through and continues to do so, our love for him remains the same.

We made the decision some time ago that we would leave him some personal items from his life with us in our wills but nothing more.

Despite the wonderful relationship we had with him for 27 years, he no longer wants us to be a part of his life and wont allow us to have anything to do with our only GC. We don't feel it would be appropriate for him to benefit financially from our estate.

I don't know if an AC who cuts out their parents without justification would expect to receive an inheritance. Had I treated my parents in that way, I would neither have expected or wanted to inherit.

Your situation is completely different of course. Your mother abandoned you and left you in the 'care' of a man she knew to be abusive. She tragically hasn't cared for you throughout your life and despite that, you've become a young woman that any parent would be proud to call their daughter.

What you wanted, needed and deserved was your mother's love, care and protection. No amount of money she might leave you when she dies will ever compensate for the fact that she deprived you of those things.

I would expect nothing, then you won't be disappointed. We were left nothing and I saw my father weekly and we were close. He was a good dad to me however, but when he remarried it all went to his new wife, he never changed his will. As for leaving money to an estranged child, I would treat my children equally, but I do love them both and one sees me the other doesn't. Everyone is different. I am afraid you just have to not dwell on it. ?

I can't sleep today ...hyped up over the World Cup.... anyway jammy toast what a life you've had. Mother leaving, Father sexually abusing (glad you've lodged a complaint).
The least your mother can do is leave you and your sibling a big share of her estate and a small part to her partner. But to leave it to your step father' bro is beyond my understanding

Jammytoast interesting question. I love my son, Dil and DGC.

I have made a will leaving what I have to a London homelessness charity and Cancer Research UK.

Hi Lucky Yoga & others. I hope you remember me from times past, I pop in every once in a while. For those of you who don't remember, I am the estranged dd. My dm walked out when I was a small child and left me to be sexually abused by my df for years. Now, decades later, I'm bringing charges against him but that's a whole other story. I got curious when thinking tonight & thought I'd post again to see what you all say. I have a question. For those of you who are the estranged mothers, do you still have unconditional love for your estranged offspring? I suddenly wondered if my mother would leave me anything in her will? I strongly suspect my dm won't. When we were last in contact she told me that when she dies everything goes to my stepdad and on his death to his brother. So me & my sibling would get nothing. My dm will die before my stepfather, she's much older than him and has already had cancer twice. Despite the fact he smokes like a chimney Anyway, it hurt when she told me that as we were still on relatively good terms at the time. We weren't cared for in life, nor would we be in death. So I'm just curious, for those of you with no contact whatsoever, would you still leave everything to your dc or would you bequeath it elsewhere? I can imagine some of you saying 'Well the kid(s) cut me off so I'll cut them off'. So how do you feel? What are your thoughts about when that time comes?...

Thanks everyone!

It's so very hard!! We had no warning whatsoever...everything was fine until we took her car keys away. She never even packed a bag!! And, this is so unlike her.

I was starting to see a shift in her awhile ago. She stopped really being home other than to sleep and shower. When she had time to chat, I was hearing stories of hanging with bf and his mom, that the father was a jerk etc. I heard about the affair the bf's father had in the past, how bf knows all about it and has no respect for his father.

She was taking bf to all of his medical appointments, she said they're trying to get his doses right. Why isn't his mother doing this? He is on Paxil, Vyvanse, and Co-Quetiapine..serious meds for 18 yrs old..DD told me his doc wants to do therapy with the whole family but his father refuses and is the main source of the start of her bf's depression so he claims.

I am just worried her being so easily welcomed almost from day one in their home like a new family member created a situation where his parents (mostly mom) are thinking they are doing a good thing for their son and I get it but I don't want it to be at my DD's expense down the line.

Morning ladies I agree with agnurse but appreciate how painful and difficult it is as all parents do, when your AC makes bad choices.

You said in your first post Megsma that her bf's mother relies on him for support, not a healthy situation for either of them, but it does raise the more likely possibility that rather than her seeing your D being there for her bf so she doesn't have to be there for her son, she's happy for your D to be there because that means her son will stay.

You also said your D is stubborn and head strong which makes Luckyleg's point so important; "the more you go on the further she'll pull away".

I remember my poor mum's horrified look when I left home at such a young age Luckylegs and when I look back and see 16 years old's today I'm amazed that I did so and made a success of flat sharing with an older girl friend.

I see 19 year olds and think my goodness, I got married at your age and 23 year olds, and think my goodness I'd had 2 children by the time I was your age.

There is need for the passive agressive reply, we all go through hard and terrible things in life. It does not entitle us to be rude

For once I read Agnurse, for once I agreed with her viewpoint on Megsgma and her dilemma.

Megsgmy, if you gave a good relationship prior to this I would let her get on with it. The more you go on the further she will pull away. He doesn't sound the sort of boy I would want for my daughter, I always think you make their partners welcome and they come to see whether it works out. I was extremely lucky in my children's choice of husband/wife, whom I love very much. But I have had the pain of estrangement, but whatever she thinks of me I know she has an excellent partner.
Smileless I can't imagine my daughter leaving home at 16, although she was always mature and sensible, I am thankful she left at 22 to marry a lovely man but I cried for nearly a week after the wedding. I look back and think how happy as a family we were, now I'm on my own and miss her, but at least she is happy. Perhaps the fates decided to take it all away, I don't know.

Thank you agnurse,

You are so right and I know this...it's just so very damn hard!! In 5 weeks I've texted her 3x and called once...my last text basically was are you going to ignore me forever? That was 6 days ago, I am stepping completely back.

Megsgma

I think your rules were perfectly reasonable, and I definitely think your concerns are justified.

The fact is, though, your daughter is 19. She's a legal adult. She has the right to make her own decisions. I don't think you were wrong to bring your concerns to her about her BF, but as far as her job and everything else, she needs to be responsible for that herself. If she loses her job, that's on her. If this relationship doesn't work out, that's on her.

For now, I would suggest leaving her be. I understand you're concerned for her. I am concerned for her, based on what you've said. But she needs to recognize that the situation is unhealthy and decide on her own to leave it. All you can do right now is be a soft spot to land if she does decide to do the right thing and end the relationship.

My sister is currently in a marriage that we don't think is healthy. She's cut off contact with our parents and us, her siblings. It's incredibly sad, but we can't force her to contact us. All we can do is wait and pray.

I too married at 19, I've wondered if this is karma lol. My DD's father came from a strict european religous family BUT he was 23, owned a successful business and his mother would wait at the door for him to come home whether it 2, 3, or 4 in the morning questioning and badgering him. We had a big wedding planned and partially paid for but when I didn't want the wedding venue where they wanted it, his mother drove him crazy and she actually pulled the ig you don't call this wedding off and break up with that girl cause she's to young, he upped and moved into my parents house and we ended up getting married anyways and only my family attended. I've been through this and we never ever treated DD like a child or gave her ultimatums or harassed her about coming home for dinner and I never waited up for her...for all I know she was coming in at 4 am but I kept getting told all my friends stay at their bf's!! We never fought or anything over it all, I just explained my position and that I didn't think it fair for his parents her being there all the time and she seemed to accept that.

Thanks Smileless,

We did take the car, that's when she decided to just not come home anymore so she no longer has ties to us. We gave her a car to use to go to work and go anywhere she wanted but with the expectation that she save money, help with chores around the house and be home by 2 am, no sleeping at 18 yr old bf's unless its a special occasion . It only made sense to us that she couldn't possibly be saving anything, she never ate at home anymore and you have to eat! I would buy her personal items while shopping and paid for any improvements to her room and her father pays her cell phone so the one and only bill she had was 70 a month towards car insurance. I do not support her otherwise financially.

I went to his p's just one time to find out if they knew what the heck was going on and they really didn't...they had no clue she'd been staying at their house!! So they say, because the car was no longer parked in their driveway... they had just been thinking she might be gone?? Their son is 18, all I keep thinking is why are they letting this happen? Whose house is it anyways? Who is running the show?? Maybe their son who is going through a rough time - to his advantage??

My DD I was told must pay alot for her and her bf's extra curricular activities because he doesn't work and was supposed to graduate this year but didn't and has no money - all according to his parents!! DD led me to believe otherwise, that he had a job with his uncle this summer. His p's tell me he lasted 2 days and never went back!! I can see his father is so disappointed in his son but his mother is all perfectly fine with it...she knows what and where her son is, safe and comfy in her home but because my daughters 19, I shouldn't worry..wonder?? Bf's father said to my H when I was talking to the mother that he feels a little pushed out of his own house cause DD and bf are always around and feels a lack of privacy...my exact reason for curfews..respect. Their son has serious mental health issues unfortunately and I'm sorry for that but having a breeding ground for co-dependence is sooo wrong and I think his mama finds this all acceptable for her own selfish reasons.

So they've pretty much taken my DD in and let her raise their son, emotionally and financially. And when it doesn't work out, or she needs help financially, will they be there for her? Not likely.

3 days after I went and spoke to his p's her job called looking for her, apparently she hadn't gone to work. Soooo unlike her, so you can imagine all the things going through my head. His mother gave me her cell # the day of the meeting, when DD wouldn't respond about her work calling, I texted the bf's mother and she never ever answered me. Nice! After she said text me anytime.

I would never tell DD she's not welcome back, but I feel like it!!

This person who is a mother herself saw how concerned I was for my daughter and for them as well...I could never just say oh well, guess she's moved in with you and walk away with a clear conscience but they have helped her do that with no regard for her parents.

A very difficult and worrying time for you Megsma I'm so sorry.

I'm assuming that your D is working and so able to support herself financially and that apart from giving her the use of your car, you are not giving her any financial support.

If you are helping her out financially, that could be an opportunity to persuade her to talk to you. I'm not suggesting that you use any assistance you may be giving as a means of control, but at 19, if she is prepared to accept your help she should be prepared to discuss this situation with you.

You've done the right thing by stepping back and assuring her that your home is her's but to void that IMO would be a mistake at this stage and too soon to take such a step.

I do understand your anger at her unreasonable behaviour and the amount of pain and distress this is causing you and her SF, but I think you would find such a decision counter productive.

19 seems so young doesn't it but you know I left home at 16 and married at 19. I think we're apt to forget that when our AC reach that age they are adults, all be it young and inexperienced adults.

You need to play the waiting game. You've told her your door is open and for now that is all you can do. I would try and resist that strong pull to go to her bf's house and discuss her and what's happening with his parents.

I'm sure the other regular posters on this thread who know and understand the pain of estrangement will have some advice for you.

Keep in touch and let us know how things are going and more importantly how you're managing to cope.

I couldn't decide whether to leave or stay and watch Northernsoul it certainly was nerve wracking wasn't it.

I've enjoyed watching he reaction all around the country in various pubs, clubs and on the streets. I hope our players have seen some of the footage too and can see how proud we are of them and how much their well deserved victory meant to so many.

I dream of our ES from time to time. He varies in age in my dreams but seldom is he older than primary school age. I've had dreams when he's the age he is now but I never actually see him I just know that he's there.

I'm glad your dreams bring you comfort. I used to find my upsetting but they're less frequent than they used to be and don't seem to affect me at all now.

Hello all

I've been reading posts here for some time - never thought I would have a reason to post on this topic from personal experience...but am here now looking for advice.

I'll try to keep this as short as possible!!

I have 2 DD's, 25 and 19. My 25 year old lives with her SO and lives her life happily and I am happy for her.

However, my 19 year old DD graduated high school (in Canada we live) and has had a part-time job in retail since 16 while in school. She is very mature for the most part (minus all the dishes that go missing in her room and water bottles...what is with that with teen's anyways??) and respectful, also for the most part.

I have been married for 10 years to their SF and there have been issues at times but nothing horrible. I will say my husband and I are stricter and have higher expectations of how a family lives and gets along than their father and are firm believers in looking out for one another and respectful of each others space and time and have taught them to keep an eye open to help out if something needs doing..ie if you take the last or even 3rd last water, coke, etc. put some back from the box for the next guy..thinking of others simply put.

Just over a year ago DD (19) met a boy and started dating, first serious relationship. Prior to that she was always social with friends in the past, always busy busy but still somewhat around but always rushing when home because she burns the candle at both ends. She had plans for college but wanted to take some time off in between to work, save money etc.

We gave her my old vehicle to use as her own whenever she wanted, she only had to put her own fuel in and pay $70.00 towards insurance to give her some responsibility.

In the past year, she has only had her bf to our home twice. We have suggested having him over for dinner but she always had a reason as to why that wouldn't work. I only work part-time and am always home, her bf's parents work and are never home so she is there ALL her free time. We saw this happening and said we would like to get to know him to no avail. We're pretty cool parents and DD's could always talk to me about anything.

DD talked to me over time about her bf and the family dynamic in his home. Parents are drinkers and fight at times, bf's father and bf don't have a great relationship. Turns out bf is on alot of meds for anxiety and depression ( I found the names written down on a piece of paper and they are legit serious meds) and bf's mom has leaned on her son alot through her marital troubles. DD came home one day saying bf and his father had an argument that made his mother cry so the father punched a hole in bf's bedroom door - while she was in there with bf trying to calm him down!!

I have suggested maybe her being there all the time is not helping the situation and that she really isn't qualified nor should she be at this age taking on all his problems/issues. Hard to tell someone tho when they're in deep. But she would often tell me stories but that was the only one where I heard of violence and I tried to remain non judgemental at all times but was clear that violence is wrong in that instance.

FF to a month ago. My H told DD to please make time to be home on the weekend so he could do an oil change and change the tires on the vehicle we had given her to use, this went on for a month and she just wouldn't take time away from her bf to be here. Her curfew was 2 am, fair enough I think for 19 yrs old and driving around in my old car, but I put my foot down on sleeping at his house and said only if they were going to be having drinks with friends...part of it was since they spend so much time together, she stopped talking college and wasn't looking for full-time work, I didn't want her getting into the habit of being with him 24 hrs a day...he still was in high school for 1 more year.

1 month went by of weekends and she wouldn't take time for her SF to work on the car, I warned her we would take the keys if she didn't take the time and we did, that was a month ago and I have seen her for 2 mins after I had to wait to catch her on the street outside his house and spoke to her once over the phone 2 weeks after she left.

She won't take my calls, answer my texts. I went to his house with my H and spent an hour talking in the yard with his P's...they told us they had just been discussing earlier that day how they don't think she's gone home the past week and should they start charging her rent!!

We were like we don't know about you but we hope our D goes on to college etc. and we do have rules and no we don't want her sleeping here and getting too comfortable and the answer was she's 19 right? Yes, and yes there's not a damn thing I can do.

When she finally talked to me on the phone which was days after that meeting I find out that I am not the reason she isn't coming home, it's her SF, he's mean. Are you kidding me?? And bf's parents only want her to buy her own food.

I tried to reason with her, remind her how she has no vehicle now, to think about how making such a decision would affect her future with school and how much harder it would be and I called her out about her SF because he has been good to her, loved her like his own but he is no pushover.

It has been 5 weeks she's been gone, I'm not hounding her, I texted her 6 days ago tho saying I can't believe she is treating me like I no longer exist, that she has a right to be happy but so do I so at least acknowledge in some way - any way, but she is completely ignoring me.

I automatically want to blame bf and his p's but DD is stubborn and headstrong however I believe they have welcomed her with open arms and made her comfortable and maybe everyones a little happier with her around (for now) because she tempers the dynamic and is good for their boy grrrrr....just my suspicion. But I am very worried as this bf is on some serious anti-psychotic meds, I don't know him, and his parents are pretty liberal...found out when meeting bf's parents bf likes his pot alot!! And he doesn't work...so I assume my DD has been paying for everything they do including eating out.

DD never came home to get clothes or anything since, just has what she has left there over time.

I am at a loss over all this and my other DD is in shock and has tried to talk to her sister but she ignores her as well...our friends and family cannot believe she has done this and is blaming SF. He and I believe it's an excuse to do as she pleases because we have rules.

Thoughts? Suggestions?? At this point I've stepped back but let her know her home is always here but with how she's treating me I'm ready to void that option.

Smileless, I was such a wreck when it came to the penalty shootouts I had to leave the room!
Felt the ref was overwhelmed at one point by the Columbians and there behaviour, similar to a teacher with an unruly class.
Was pleased that result rewarded the better team.
Looking forward to the next game as it will be more balanced.

Just wondered if anyone has dreams of their estranged child?
For the first few years I was worried I may have nightmares, as I am a prolific dreamer and have been known to cry out!
About a year ago my daughter came to me in a dream and it was lovely.
I have dreamt of both DD and SiL since and this week I’ve dreamt of my grandsons too, although I’ve only seen them when they were babies, in my dream they were the age they are now..weird isn’t it?
Fortunately the dreams bring comfort and not nightmares.