Kept from grands I need advice

I think we are all on a hiding to nothing with this thread. The OP doesn't want help and advice, she just wants everybody to agree with her version of the problem and is incapable of seeing any other viewpoint.

I would never label anyone I didn't know as mentally ill. So I won't, but would perhaps suggest that the best way forward for her is counselling.

immagamma you are still ( a few posts away) saying you don’t know what you ve done wrong but so many people have told you but you are still in utter denial that you have been anything but a reasonable mother in law
So in plain English Here’s what you do wrong

You call your daughter in law mentally ill, terrible, and ridiculous
You call up unexpectedly and seemingly often even when asked not to
You send unwanted bible texts in the post
You speak about them being unChristian
You judge them and use your religion to justify this
You blame them while you think you have done nothing wrong

You saw the first baby until it was 5 months old so either something happened around then or you had completely worn them down and they didn’t want a repeat with the next baby
How can you solve this ? Well until you see the mistakes you have made you won’t resolve anything, and that’s being totally realistic
Stop the bible texts, stop the dropping in, stop the begging letters. Send only birthday cards and Christmas cards maybe with some money in for the children no ovett messages in them and no bible texts included for the next 12 months Stop trying to drive a wedge between your son and his wife, let it all die down, perhaps in time they will let you see the children if they see you are not going to bombard them
I really think the only problem your son and daughter in law need to fix is you So sorry Immagamma to be the bearer of such bad news I think you re probably a lovely lady wanting to love your family but going about it so wrongly and with no insight to accept you are wrong
NO. Times have not changed there have always been family problems of all shapes and sizes it needs care, stepping back and honouring your sons choice of life partner and that’s always been the same
Please look at your own behaviour first

immagamma I agree that it isn’t good to ‘cut and run’ from conflict, however I also think it is absolutely ridiculous to expect them to completely change their boundaries, wishes etc just to placate you. You are expecting them to let you ‘be you’, but what about them? They shouldn’t have to sacrifice everything they want just to keep you happy.

Follow missadventure’s advice, talk to your friends. I guarantee you that those ‘effortless’ relationships require compromise, on both sides.

“there’s a deeper problem and he and my dil have to fix that”

OMG! You are wilfully blind to your own faults.
The problem here is so obviously 100% YOU.

YOU have to completely change your attitude and response to them if you’ve any hope of reconciliation. Your sister sounds as batty as you do, so I’m not surprised she sides with you.

I feel so sorry for your poor son and daughter-in-law.

You should ask your friends for a frank talk about how their relationships work with their families.
I think you may be surprised how much work it takes!

Thank you all for your words of advice it’s difficult for me but maybe it’s what I need to hear
When I was a mom I never would have dreamed of asking or telling my kids grandparents to act a certain way. My how things have changed. I wish they would just let me be a grandparent. Let me be me! I feel strongly in this yet I’m getting a different message here.

I see my friends with their grands and things seem so effortless and that hurts so much I can’t bear to look at pictures on social media, or hear their stories even. I’m sure some of you can relate to that feeling because that’s what I desperately want is to have that relationship.

I do have friends that support me. My sister has supported me and she too thinks my dil is ridiculous and that I’m not being out of line. She doesn’t see my grands either there was another fallout she had with my son... I guess she took my side and cut herself away from them. It’s amazing and sad how estrangement can affect the whole family. I fee my son is running away and that won’t solve the problem of “me”, there’s a deeper problem and he and my dil have to fix that. You can’t just cut and run every time there’s conflict.....

You are desperate to see your son and Grandchildren yet you tell your son not to turn up to any family celebrations!

This is indeed gridlock

but Immaganma it is only you who can sort this out.
It starts with trying to understand your sons point of view and listening to advice.

I love my grandchildren I abide by their parents wishes. In no way would I jeopardise my contact with my DGC by giving unwanted advice or opinions or question the mental health of my child's spouse.

Do you have a friend that you could confide in and ask for their honest opinion?

Immagran We would all to help you if we could, but you seem to have fortified yourself in every way in saying that you are all right and your son and family are all wrong and anyone suggesting anything else is also all wrong.

I am afraid reading the above only explains why you are having the problems you are having. You are making all the mistakes that every thread ever on GN about being a grandmother warns you not to do. These include

1) Do not call in uninvited, or at least checking-up in advance whether it is convenient.

2) Do not give advice unless specifically asked for it. No-one wants to be told what they should be doing.
Your son and wife are adults and are entitled to lead their lives the way they wish without you constantly telling them what to do. They are also the arbiters of how you relate to their child. If they think that you will act with their child in a way that they do not approve of, then they have every right to limit contact.

3) It is not unusual for a new mother not to want lots of help from grandmothers. She wants to gain confidence in caring for her child in her own way. Child rearing methods change from generation to generation so what you 'knew' when you had children will no longer be relevant or correct and the last thing she needs is grandmothers trying to make her do things that are no longer considered safe and acceptable.

4) Parents have a right to decide how often grandparents visit whether you like it or not. You complain that you only see them a couple of times a week How often were you expecting to see them, that sounds more than enough. They are a family and want to spend time together, without one member of the family deciding they can drop by whenever they want to. What if the other grandparents expected to act like that. Your son, wife and baby would have no time to themselves.

5) You seem absolutely convinced that everything you ever did was right and others are all wrong. The fact that your children spent lots of time with their grandparents, does not mean you have a right to see your grandchildren. I am sure if you had thought your children's grandparents, might do harm to your children or cause strife in the family, you would have limited contact and that is all your son is doing.

I am sorry but the more you write about your situation the more I end up understanding why your son is acting the way he is. As I said in a previous post. All you can do now is stand back, get on with your life and hope things improve. Meanwhile reread the responses to your post carefully and think about them. None of us is out to get you and we all want to help you but, currently, you are your own worst enemy.

As a general rule grandparents with good relationships with their children, visit only when they know it is convenient, do not buy presents unless they have checked with the parents that the gift is acceptable and appropriate, do not give any advice, and accept that their children are independent grown-ups who will almost always do things differently to the way they would choose to do things themselves.

But do know because your son has told you.
Giving advice when they haven't asked for it, presuming you know better because you've had more children, assuming you can do what you want with their baby then when you can't saying your DIL has mental health problems, turning up un-invited over and over again when your son has asked you not to, ignoring him an then turning up with friends...

I do have sympathy, for them.

immagamma, if you read through the threads here, you'll see that almost everyone has to compromise on things in order to keep their family happy.
Its not possible to just do what you want, you have to follow your son and daughter in law wishes with regard to their children.
Its not unusual, its normal, as you'll see.
I think the problems all stem from you not being able, genuinely, to understand that.
Even if unreasonable, by your way of thinking, the parents rules apply.
There probably isn't a grandparent here who hasn't had to stay quiet, or alter their thinking, or bite their tongue at times.

That was in response to crazyH..

Violet, I suppose this is where many people here don’t symphathize. That I have given a fake apology of some sort that isn’t valid. But I cannot apologize for something I don’t know what I did and I guess hat is coming across as “fake” here

Thank you
I’m sorry for your situation too...
I hope you get to give your granddaughter a birthday kiss

Pressed to soon.

You need to really look at what you've wrote down.
You have way over stepped the mark on numerous occasions.

Either apologies properly, re-evaluate yourself or leave them alone.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Aaaaand there it is.

There's no mystery. Your behaviour has been awful.

It's so sad for you Imma...... I never just "drop in " to my sons' houses, even though one of the dinlaw is easy going. As I said, the other one is very unkind to me and I only get to see their kids once a month or so. She never brings them over to see me, although she takes them over to other people's houses. It really hurts, but I can't do anything about it.
It's my granddaughters bday soon....i have been invited to the party but I asked if I could drop by on the actual day to see her and give her the present etc and just to give her a bday kiss, but I haven't heard back. I guess that will be a No.
Nevermind...it's nice that we can off-load on here.

So...

Unsolicited advice that you were asked to stop, and yet you say you carried on regardless.
Going round uninvited when they asked you for notice.
Going round even when they say they are busy and it's not a good time.
Going round uninvited and TAKING FRIENDS WITH YOU?!
Suggesting your DIL has MH problems because "she wouldn’t just let me do things my way with the baby".
Suggesting that you have "rights" and may go via the courts.

And yet "the rest is a mystery to you"?

You really have to ask why they have restricted contact? Do you have issues with social awareness in other areas of your life? Because this is like bad MIL bingo and you seem to have no clue.

I'm sorry but it is glaringly obvious why they have stopped contact with you.

I took a step away but I’m still reading a lot of this is hard to hear.

There have been many questions about what happened to cause this and my son did talk to me about things before I wasn’t allowed to see my grands. He told me it was becoming a problem I was giving too much advice and they didn’t like that. My son and I have never really seen eye to eye, his whole life, and I told him this advice was part of what I learned and is simply my opinion and I’m going to share that reguardless. They didn’t want me stopping by uninvited and I think that’s silly, but called in the future to plan visits anyway, every time I tried to call my son he would say no we have other plans so the only way I could see my grandkids was to pop by. I tried to have excuses like I would buy gifts and ask to go over to visit or have my friends with me to visit to no avail. So they let me visit only once or twice a month!

I only was seeing them a couple times a week before then, my dil never asked me to stay and help with the baby not her own mom, so maybe she just is antisocial. When I was a mom I let the grandparents come by any time they wanted and that’s just what a family does. My own kids spent lots of time with their grandparents. My kids knew their grandparents and my grands will only know whatever my dil will say about me.

So i wasn’t allowed to give advice, I wasn’t allowed to stop by, I wasn’t allowed to do what I wanted with my grand. It was unkind of them and I said my dil is mentally ill because I believe she has anxiety or something that’s why she wouldn’t just let me do things my way with the baby, I had a few kids of my own and of course I know what I’m doing!

Things deteriorated and my son kept saying no to visiting, them when I turned up he would not let me in after two years and he asked me not to contact his wife and kids again.

That’s the most detail I really can give and the rest is a mystery to me. I even told my son we have rights as grands, and he said if I even went for those rights in the courts we would be done for ever. So I haven’t yet.

I do send cards to my grands and small gifts. They’re almost always either returned or thrown out I’m sure. Some come back rts. If I buy them subscriptions my dil immediately cancels. They even moved home and didn’t tell me and I had to get their new address online through whitepages! Just so I could keep sending things to my grandkids! I’ve asked my son not to even come to family celebrations because it’s too painful to see him and my elderly father is too fragile to take the stress.

It all just seems like a gridlock and it’s very difficult so I’m sorry if this all seems very jumbled.

Total fail of italics and bolding there.

I have emailed and sent cards to my son to try to understand this painful situation. He says he loves me, but how can he deny me my grandchildren if that’s true? He refused to have family counseling when I offered. He and my daughter in law (who I believe is mentally ill) are so unforgiving.
I have gone as far to show up at their home and my own son asked me to leave! I just want to see my grandchildren! He left me out in the cold and they had the nerve to send me a “do not contact” letter after that!
I continue to send bible verses in the mail to their home. God does not like unforgiving people and they are turning away from him in excluding me.

I’m sorry, but I’m going to agree with 95% of the posters on this thread, in that you sound completely self centred and unwilling to accept any responsibility for the estrangement. I’m really not surprised by the reaction of your son and DIL and I can’t believe you actually want to label her ‘mentally ill’ just because she won’t bow down to your will. Good for her!
As a MIL myself, I know that my son’s wife and son is HIS NEW FAMILY and I’m part of his ‘old family’. Thankfully, I get on well with my two DIL’s even though we’re very different, but that’s because I respect them and respect their right to do things their own way.

I also find it extremely ironic when some evangelistic Christians mis-use passages of the Bible in order to bully others into submission. They’re certainly not ‘good Christians’ by anyone’s low standards.

ImmagammaI'm so very sorry that you have been excluded from your GC's and your son's lives.

Yogagirl and I know one another well and both post on a thread to support those who find themselves estranged from loved ones. It's on the same forum as your thread and you may like to take a look and share your story there as well.

We have a 6 yer old GC who we haven't been allowed to see since he was 8 months old and have never seen his brother who is nearly 2.5 years old so as does Yogagirl I understand your pain and torment.

You asked 3 questions at the end of your original post and from my personal experience of this nightmare, these are my responses.

Send your GC Birthday and Christmas cards but don't make any effort to contact your son and his wife. Not contacting them will mean that you don't send any more bible verses which would be for the best. Don't go to their home, send the children's cards in the post. The only thing you can do is learn to accept the estrangement and let it go. I've no doubt that your faith will help you find the strength to do this; I know mine did.

You said in a later post that your son has previously asked you to pray for his family and for me that goes some way to explaining why you've sent bible verses which I do feel was a questionable decision, but understandable never the less.

If it's your approach to your faith and your desire to talk about and share it that's an issue, then why didn't they simply talk to you about it? If they had genuine concerns about you being alone the children, they could have ensured that one or both of them was present. That said, you were obviously seeing the eldest for the first 5 months of his/her life when they were there, so why the need to sever all contact at that point?

I hope that you will find the compassion, love and support that you need from your faith and I also hope you'll find the courage to let this go and walk away so you can move on with your life, enjoying the love of those that you love and who love you in return.

Eglantine I think that it is another mystery because the bible also says that God knew us from before the foundation of the world and knows who are His. I think that shows that God knows who will respond positively to Him and those who will reject Him. We still are all given and all have the opportunities to come to Him but only God knows who actually will and those who will not and I think that is why it says in the bible that 'they are without excuse'. We all need to be aware of the choices we make and are totally free to make. In the end it is all very simple.

I feel really sad for your situation it must be really painful. I do however agree that the bible verses should stop. Also, I notice that you are quite disparaging of your daughter in law. I of course don’t know her but I think it is a no no to put down your child’s partner and the mother of his children no matter what you think of them as that could cause conflict for your son as his loyalties for his mother and partner could be divided and normally the mother of his children will win.

You say that you have apologised on a number of occasions and your apology, especially from your daughter in law, has not been accepted. I wonder what are you apologising for? Is there something in particular? If you genuinely have nothing to apologise for then don’t apologise. I do believe that if your son has not told you what the problem is and you really don’t know then he is being cruel.

Now having said all that, you say that other family members are allowed access, so, could you ask one of these family members to mediate for you and maybe at least try and ascertain the reason for this situation. At the end of the day there may not be a happy outcome from this and so I, if I were you, would stop contacting them and give them, especially your son, the space to come to you if they/he should want to at some point. This will be very hard but you need to put your energies into yourself now and try and enjoy the things you have. At some point your grandchildren will want to find you. I hope you have other people in your life that you can give your love and time to. I wish you well and hope this situation resolves soon.

Thank you very much Synonymous for taking the time to write that long post and very interesting. I work in the evenings also, so very limited time to go to church, but I would really like to go more often, I'll take a look at my DD church to see if they have any service that I could go to when I've free time to go. xx

This is in answer to and for Yogagirl so please forgive the long post!

Yogagirl I would not consider myself religious and certainly don't feel qualified to answer much at all but one thing I know is that God loves each and every one of us and knows all our innermost thoughts, hopes and fears and wants a close relationship with us. The only way to a close relationship with anyone is to really get to know them and what naturally follows from that is to discover what grieves them and, to use an old fashioned word, to desist from those things.
Prayer is one of the ways we get to know God because it is basically talking. It isn't the easiest thing to do either as God is Spirit so we cannot physically see Him, although He has appeared to some people, and it takes a great deal of discernment to know what God is saying to us. That is why you need to work at getting to know God which is why we pray. A bit circular really. You can pray wherever you are and whatever you are doing and whenever you want to as He is always there. Thank goodness for that eh?! I often feel totally inappropriate about my how and where I am talking to God but since He created us in His image I know that He has a sense of humour so am relying on the fact that he had that humour first. I so hope I am right! The bible is full of teaching about how we can 'stand before the Lord'. He does not want us to grovel before Him and David danced before the Lord in worship. I like that! Sometimes we fall on our faces before God but that is about us and where we are and not about Him. Neither is it inherently wrong of course but God's teaching is to help us to stand.
You cannot go far wrong in starting with how I was originally taught by using the acronym ACTS. This stands for Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving and Supplication and if you get it in the right order it is much better. You need to approach in the right way as nobody likes someone they love to rush up to them with demands and forget to give due respect.
I also use 'arrow prayers' just talking to Him about something that occurs or I think about. You don't always need words either - see Romans 8:26.
When you are getting to know someone you cannot hope to know all about them at once or very quickly and often you need to accept their word. God's word is the bible and in it he speaks to us about Himself in three persons, the Trinity, right from the very beginning and in fact it is so important that it is contained in the very first chapter, Genesis. It is faith and we need to have faith that when He tells us something then it is so. There are some things we will never understand this side of eternity but if you trust God, who is truth, then it does not matter. It is very human to want to know everything and I can remember telling my own children 'you don't need to know' and 'trust me' and that is exactly what God says to His children!
Whilst I appreciate that your work is at weekends not every church meets only on a Sunday. Many, like my own, have many different meetings throughout the week and at all hours. If yours doesn't then find one which does as it is impossible to be a Christian on your own, you need teaching and the fellowship of other believers. Watch what happens to a burning coal when you take it out of the fire!
I am happy for you to PM me if you want to. X