Support for all who are living with estrangement

Wow that's so good to hear Pythag, I'm really happy for you.
A friend of mine had very short estrangements from both her AC and basically gave them a rolicking and put her foot down right away and they accepted it and moved on.
I'm pretty sure me being too soft in some ways is in the mix somewhere but a chance to speak at all would be a start.
Still I'm really happy for you and hope it is all onwards and upwards, do let us know please.

What a lot of sad stories .... and I know how you all feel. Sometimes sons are wound up by jealous DILs ......
Sometimes they have problems within themselves they have to deal with. Sometimes they are selfish spoilt brats!
Recently I snapped with my son ..... I put the phone down on him ..... after yet another rejection. I told him I love him very much enough was enough! A series of emails followed and I explained in a non accusatory way, well almost! how his behaviour had made me feel. I told him he knew where I was and I would always love him, but wasn’t putting myself forward for rejection anymore. After a few days silence, he and as if nothing had happened and said he was bringing the children for lunch on Sunday! We had a lovely time and nothing more was said. Our situation is caused by a controlling partner, my sons, and his difficulty in standing up to her. But I decided to put down a marker in the sand. I hoped it wouldn’t lead to an estrangement ..... and it doesn’t seem to have been ..... we wait and see what happens next!

I think we should suggest it to them, when we write our wills.

Once again Smileless, super encouraging words for everyone who needs words of comfort and not to be judged! Rejection is hard but I am sure that when all of our NC offspring get older, they will understand the impact they have had. Maybe they can set up a forum where they can lick each others wounds

I'm glad you found a way to move on Smileless.
I think for me it was being told that he would be in touch when he was ready to sort it out and 'if you ever really loved me prove it now by having no contact with me until I'm ready, which will probably be a few weeks' then being left dangling for years that has left me stuck. We've had a couple of false alarms when he indicated to our DD that he was nearly ready to deal with me, then changed his mind. If he wanted to engineer a way to maximise the amount he can hurt me I don't think he could have done better than he is doing, but I honestly don't believe that's his intention, just that he's lost in his own story.
I don't know your whole story smileless but I hear a lot of insight in your words.

Hello ladies. Typo's can be fun can't they. I particularly liked yours SouperNan that you're 'exchanged'.

It's god to know that you've found this thread helpful poppins and that you've come on to share with us all. I agree that you should go along for the exchange of presents and do your best to put on a brave face. TBH I'd find it extremely difficult but at this stage I'd give it a go.

Six years into our estrangement now and I wouldn't want to see either our ES or his wife. Of course we miss our only GC but eve that's preferable to having any contact with their parents.

I think in a way we did call our ES's bluff hdh. He said we were no longer a part of his or our GC's lives and when we could see that nothing would change, we moved away. It was far and away the best thing we could have done.

Cassie you're not allowed to defend yourself because anything you say in your defense will run contrary to your son's script. Our estranged AC aren't interested in the truth, just their version of it.

Emotional blackmail is so cruel and cowardly. Being prepared to use your own children as weapons is despicable.

Pythagorusyes, we must enjoy this wonderful time of the year in the hearts and company of those who love and accept us as we are.

Oh golly Poppins that's left me stumped!

This may not be a popular opinion, but I can see some mistakes that have been made here.

crazyH

By your own admission, you have invited yourself over to their home and treated it as your own. From what you've described this is not the first time you've contacted your son about the Christmas do. I see a lot here about what YOU want, but I see little that indicates that you respect what HE wants. Frankly I'd be upset too if someone didn't take "no" for an answer.

poppins

While I get that you want to see your GC, you realize that your actions were bordering on stalking? You DON'T have the right to show up unannounced. You didn't have to wait for 1.5 hours. You could have gone home. They would have been fully within their rights to have called the police and advised them that they didn't want you on their property. This is not normal behaviour and it's not going to endear you to your son and his family.

@hdh74, oh your reply so made me smile! That is half the problem, I am a trained counsellor myself. I have regular supervision and long term therapy myself! I have had amazing support from both, in fact my therapist saw this coming. SIL said my therapist was no good and part of the conditions were that I changed to someone else, unbelievable, he'd googled 'my symptoms' and consulted professionals and that resulted in my 'diagnosis' TBH Family therapy would be a good idea but will never happen

Sorry to hear your story too Cassie. Before my son went NC he always seemed really moody and whenever I asked him how he was he would snap, 'I don't want to talk about it' and yes we walked on egg-shells and then when he said he was angry with me but needed time to work on it I said I knew he was angry but didn't know why and was waiting for him to be ready to say and he basically said my walking on egg-shells was the problem. I should have made him tell him, that's a mum's job. He also said he wasn't angry he was depressed and a mother should know that, any decent mother would and anything else I said was an excuse. We never got to the original problems he cut me off there, but I can relate to what you say. Looking back I can see there were times he wanted me to reach out to him that I missed, but I was really ill (which I know he thinks is an excuse but it was a huge factor) and I missed things.

Golly poppins, that's a strange one! However, maybe you could sort of call their bluff by having a chat with maybe a consellor or someone, not because I think for a minute you are mentally ill but because a) they might be able to shed some light on the strange behaviour you're on the receiving end of, b) give you a bit of support anyway whilst you muddle on and c) it would take all the fuel out of their argument if you simply said, 'yes I'm speaking to x about our problems' and just maybe you could get them to agree to family counselling so you can all get to the bottom of it all???

Thank you for taking the time to reply. @Soupernan, i so agree, if i spoke them and messaged them in the same way as they have done me they would be totally justified in never speaking to me again. But we cant do that because of the grandchildren can we? When I said to them do you realise the pain you have caused us they said i was attention seeking! I will do as you suggest smile sweetly and be as polite as possible and maybe just concentrate on the girls as they will be there as well. We were so involved in the girls in the early years as one was very poorly and its so painful to be kept apart now. But as you suggest we are concentrating on ourselves, we are making an effort to do something special at the weekends to compensate. We both still work to which is a welcome distraction. Christmas will be awful as we were supposed to have been there. If it was down to me Id ignore Christmas altogether.
@Cassie I know how you feel, to be told to sort your issues is appalling and I think its a projection of their own feelings that really need sorting.
@CrazyH sending you the biggest hug ever, that is so sad to think that your suffering may only be for a few more years, Oh if only they knew the pain they cause

It’s strange isn’t it how these kids can apportion blame and be so manipulating, spiteful and cruel. They know the grandparents cannot defend themselves becuase if we were to throw some of the same comments back, we would never see our grandchildren again. It’s a power game, meant to make themselves look superior. What would happen CassieJ if you were to say ‘I will not see you again or the children until you have sorted out YOUR issues’? That just wouldn’t happen. One day, your son will realise what he has done and be embarrassed by his behaviour and loss of a close family tie. For now, keep busy, think about your own happiness, get a new hobby and distract yourself.x

Hi Poppins, I would suggest that you meet up to give prezzies and be all smiles and relax. Some parents enjoy the security of their own little family bubble and don’t want to let others in. They sometimes forget or cannot imagine the hurt they cause their own parents / grandparents. I know your hurting, because I have been there. I am sure that when your daughter needs you, she will come knocking.

I too am going through this with my oldest son. It is something I would never have thought would have happened as I considered we had a good relationship.
Things kicked of last year with lots of accusations towards me which came totally out of the blue. He was verbally abusive to me, something he had never been before. I wasn't allowed to defend myself as he said that was me making excuses. Excuses as to what I have no idea, as he wouldn't enlighten me.
Things settled for a few months, more because I tip toed round him, and tried to be very careful as to what I said to him so not to cause upset.

Over the weekend he has kicked off again with imaginary issues that I have. I am not allowed to defend myself, he again tells me whatever I say is just excuses. I really wish I knew what it is I was supposed to have done that is so bad for him to be this angry with me.

It seems he can rewrite history and make accusations which in no way are true, but I am not allowed to stick up for myself. My DIL just agrees with him, that I have issues.

He is emotionally blackmailing me now saying that I have to sort "my issues" before I can see my grandchildren again.

I have written him a very long letter in the hope that he will read it and hopefully understand what this is doing to me. But I have my doubts this will happen. I think he will read it and say he is right, I am deluded.

It's your SIL who seems to have the mental issues, not you.
You must go and meet them to exchange Xmas presents or you will not be able to see the grandchildren.
I put up with a lot of nonsensical abuse from one of my sons, just so that I am able to see the kids. How sad things are for some of grandparents. My only consolation is that at my age and with my health, I may only have to put with this heartache for a couple more years, if that.

Hello, I am new to posting here, although I have been reading for some while and getting a lot of help from it. I didn't want to post as i really couldn't quite believe what was happening. My daughter is married with 2 adorable girls aged 4 and 18 months. 2 months ago she messaged me saying she wanted 'a break from me'. totally out of the blue. I thought we had a good relationship although over the previous 6 months she had become quite angry with me, I couldn't say or do anything right and she bit my head of and told me of at absolutely nothing. We have been parents who have bent over back wards and sometimes if she said jump we said how high! I was absolutey devastated as you can imagine but I left her a months without texting etc hoping a bit of space would help. DH rang a few times and listened to her rage about me. To cut a long story short I did eventually go to see her unannounced. parents evening and the girls were being put in nursery so they could go, I offered but was refused to look after them and in fact SIL said I could not stay in the house whilst they were out. so I had to sit in car in the freezing cold foe an hour and a half! However when they returned I tried hard to sort out whatever it was theta was troubling them and apologized for errors I had made ( very minor ones) in the past. But I was told by SIL I had to admit I had a mental health problem get myself treated or he would cut m out of their lives completely. I dont have the disorder he suggested, I am a pretty normal person, sometimes a bit eccentric but living life to the full whenever I can.
My dilemma is that they have suggested we meet them to deliver Xmas gifts in a few weeks. we both want to go but I really dont know how to be civil to him let alone be in the same room as him. Hope do I cope with this, my anger angst him is hige as I feel he is controlling and he has already cut out his own parents. Any advise?

Sorry to hear that CrazyH.
Having read through the thread more than once ( I don't have a good memory) it seems a common theme is that the ones who go NC (or nearly) seem to re-write history. Although I've had so little communication from my ES I don't know what's going on in his head, I have had mentioned to me that things he's said to others don't tally with what they remember. But if challenged on that he gets very angry. I think this is one reason he's forbidding anyone else to mention me or to talk to me himself because he isn't getting the response he wants from others and maybe feels we're all ganging up on him or something. We're not, I've no idea whether his version of events is accurate or not since I'm not allowed to know what they are. I know we can all rewrite history as we change our perspectives, me included, so even if I remember things in a different way to him I wouldn't discount what he says as it would be a reflection of his feelings now, even if not 100% historically accurate, and I couldn't be certain I was remembering it right anyway, but he doesn't know this because he won't give me the chance to listen.
A friend of ours had a court case recently after a driving accident and the other person's version of events was completely different. Lucky for my friend the actual evidence tallied with him not the other person. But his solicitor said it's really common for people to re-write things in their own heads and evidence given months down the line really can't be relied upon. So if it's years later I guess we can all rewrite it a great many ways.
Thanks for the kind words Pythag.
Rattling around not able to sleep again sigh...

Thankyou Pythagorus...I needed that, especially the last line. Unable to sleep tonight.

To all those who are suffering from estrangement at Christmas .... enjoy the love and company of those who care about you and try not to dwell on those who reject you. It is a common situation and particularly with sons, where they are influenced by jealous partners. Let it go ......many will come back in their own time x

Why do I do this to myself?
Today, I emailed my nearlyES, and asked him one more time whether he really has decided not to join us on our annual family dinner (I do this every year as a little treat for them, and also for the little cousins to have fun together).
Good Lord, I had a tirade of abuse from him, brought back old non-existent stories, said he didn't trust me etc etc. Where did all that come from?
But as Soupernan says, don't fight hate with hate. And be happy and grateful for the others around us, who hopefully see something good in us.
I am a good person really, but after reading my son's rant, I'm beginning to doubt it. I need to convince myself of my good qualities and look forward to a happy few years ahead.

Thank you soupernan. x My thoughts will be with you all at xmas too,. x

Sorry, terrible typos above, predictive text took over. I am estranged. Not exchanged!

Hi Hdh

My daughter went NC 6 months ago Nd I have or had two lovely little GDs. Also flumexed as to what I did, but what I can say is that you have to stay strong. Everyone one of us has only one life and I have pretty much worked out that we have to do the best to stay strong and be happy for the others around us that do see the good in who we are and what we do. I have busied myself by contacting old friends, I keep networking and never expose the truth about being exchanged and keep smiling. When other people say that O am a good daughter, sister, friend, person etc., I take comfort in knowing that I am not a bad person. Keep your powder dry. One fay, he may come calling. I believe the more we try to tesetablish the links, the further they retreat. My own mum is really unwell right now and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. There were days when we could quarrel with parents and kiss and make up. Bye cause that is what really family is about. Perhaps your son has other demons and he lays the blame at your door. Some people just have to blame others. If you have done nothing wrong, then keep your chin up and be brave. We will all shed a tear at Xmas no doubt, just don’t fight hate with hate.

My son went NC two and a half years ago. He said he was angry with me but he didn't know why, and needed time to sort his head out and he would be in contact in a few weeks. Still nothing. He talks to our DD (who lives with me) but she isn't allowed to tell me anything he says or he will go NC with her. She's not even allowed to mention me. I wrote him letters, saying however I had hurt him I was sorry and if we could only talk about it I would do whatever possible to put things right etc but he wouldn't even confirm if he received them. He has moved house now and told our DD not to give me his address so I can't write any more now. Recently he wrote to his dad, (who he has blown hot and cold with and had minimal contact with - going between his dad been the perfect parent and him being in the wrong too) and said he missed him and he would like him to visit, but not me. My husband's health is poor and he finds driving alone difficult. He would prefer to take our DD to navigate as I can't go but we're not sure if ES will allow that. My DH has also just lost his sister and has a funeral to attend. He emailed back what the situation was, saying to our ES he didn't know if he could go right now, and asking a few practical questions. No reply so far (about two weeks gone by).
Being cut off and not being allowed to know why is torture.
My heart goes out to all of you in similar situations and it helps a very little to know I'm not the only one. Thank you for the thread.