Support for all who are living with estrangement

Congratulations on the new gc, crazyh! Please don't let this joy be overshadowed with thoughts of the older son that you miss!

Good news, Ginny! Proceed with caution, but I'm so happy for you!

Bopeep, your son's behavior is very confusing. I agree w/ Dolcecatte that he probably didn't mean to signal a full reconciliation. There may be some differences between him and dil as to how far they want to take this, also. So those may be the reasons you're not getting any response to your efforts. But it means you're getting mixed messages, and that's not fair to you. I'm so sorry. Still, I feel you should back off and see if and when he makes another move. Be patient.

Crazy, I'm so sorry, about your son's reluctance to do anything. Yes, he may need to check with dil before making any plans. But, imo, he should check with her and get back to you, not tell you to check with her. Tbf, he probably thinks his way is easier, but I understand that it isn't. If you do talk to dil, can you ask her to give you a few dates that they're free for you to choose from? If she says, "We're never free," then you know that's that and you tried. But maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised. I'm glad you appreciate your time with your other gc and, basically, like your attitude.

Thank you smileless, yes there are difficulties, but the main thing is that we see them.

Thanks Goo

Luckylegsthe Serenity prayer is my favourite; something to aspire too but as you say, hard to follow at times.

maddy it's good to know that you're seeing your GC. It must be a strain for you at times, if there are still problems but hopefully give time, things will continue to improve. The pain of being unable to be a GP to your GC is impossible to put into words.

Wow Ginny. It would have taken a lot for your s.i.l. to not only apologise and ask for your forgiveness, but to ask you to go and stay with them. I'm not surprised your nervous about the visit. Your D's all be it limited contact must have been a major factor in this turn around. Good for her for not totally cutting you out of her's and her children's lives.

I can't help but wonder how different our situation might have been if our ES hadn't completely capitulated and had kept the door open just a fraction.

Try clicking this link or copy and pasting it into address bar CrazyH.

www.beliefnet.com/prayers/protestant/addiction/serenity-prayer.aspx

Googled serenity prayer ...couldn't find it

I do think it's almost impossible to have a relationship with gc if things are not right with the parent, be that a son, daughter or Dil. In theory it shouldn't matter but in reality it very much does. You can only go by what people say on here, me included and sometimes a situation can be interpreted. Estrangement is awful, unfortunately for a lot of us there are no fixes. I try to remember the Serenity prayer, all very true but hard to follow sometimes, but that says it all really.

I am so happy for you Ginny ??

Encouraging news Ginny ! As my dear old mum used to say, where there's life, there's hope.

Just a message which I hope will encourage everyone feeling shut out of the lives of loved ones to keep on hoping for reconciliation.

For three years I have been semi-estranged from my DD's life and that of her husband and my DGS. I say semi because she would come here with my GS at Christmas, mid-terms and summer, but without her husband. So a big difference from many posters who are cut off by their own child.

Last week I had a call from my SiL asking could I forgive him for treating me so badly and would I go and stay with them for a while. My DD had texted with a warning that he was going to call and to prepare myself. I didn't see the text until later, so the call was completely out of the blue!

I said of course I can forgive and I am going - they live abroad, so it has taken a while to put things in place to leave my home for a while. Am I nervous? Yes, I am, but I think it took a lot of courage to apologise and I'm going to just take things as they come and try very hard not to harbour ill feelings.

I want to say that there is always hope. In the meantime make plans to simply get on with your life as I did and now I'm hoping to have a much happier life at last.

Hugs to all who are suffering and shedding buckets of tears as I have over the past three years.

Thank you smileless, I don’t look at this thread so often now, though I do pop in sometimes, but I don’t always post. Whilst my situation has improved, but none the less, remains troubled, I know that compared to many I am fortunate. I suffered terrible pain from not being allowed to see my grandchildren last year, and from being excluded from normal information and visits after the birth of my grandchild. Consequently I have enormous sympathy for the many grandparents who are estranged from their grandchildren. I believe that grandchildren have a right to have a relationship with their grandparents. Depending on where each party lives, that relationship should at the very least offer the possibility of FaceTime/Scype times, and letters, and gifts and so on. Where grandparents live near to grandchildren, contact is the child’s right in my opinion.
The estrangement of grandparents appears to be a growing problem in the western world. I wonder why. Is it the ‘all rights and no responsibilities’ syndrome I wonder, or are the current generation of parents much more selfish than we were when we were bringing up children. Certainly I think that younger people are more self absorbed than our generation, but I’m speaking generally, and realise that this doesn’t apply to all younger people. Maybe the emphasis on ‘rights’ in schools has bred a generation of people who think their needs are paramount and of course we have the ongoing arguments about how we, the baby boomers, have selfishly taken everything for ourselves and left them with little, perhaps all these changes in society and in education have made younger people resentful.
Anyway, I’m only musing, and that won’t change the minds of a single AC who has cut out their parents. It’s all so sad.

maddy it's so kind of you to come here and wish us all well and to remind us that you think about our predicament. It's wonderful to know that you're no longer estranged butthat you still struggle.

I've always felt that the relationship with an AC who cut you out of their lives, for how ever long, can never be the same.

crazy I do understand your anger. Our initial heart break turned to anger too and the anger is still there as well as the pain. It's perfectly understandable IMO to be angry with your son and to question how much he cares about you.

In a few weeks time it will be 6 years for us and I now question whether or ES ever cared, ever loved us. It still doesn't seem real or even possible that he is no longer in our lives and that we'll never know our only GC.

It isn't for any of us to question whether or not an EP loves their AC Luckylegs. Punk said they'd never been close, she didn't say she didn't and had never loved her D.

A couple of years ago our DS said that our ES wondered if I loved him. I told our DS that I could understand his brother wondering if I loved him now, in light of what he'd done, if I still loved him, but not if I'd ever loved him. If the first 27 years of his life and the relationship we once had weren't proof of my love for him then I didn't see what else I could do or say.

Maybe for some EAC it eases their guilt to say they never were or never felt loved. In some tragic cases this is the case but it isn't relevant to ours and it's not for us to suggest that it is relevant to Punk either.

Airing our situation on FB isn't something we'd ever do but for a parent that does, it doesn't follow that they don't love the AC who refuses to have anything to do with them.

I don't want anything to do with our ES but that's not because I no longer love him. I do and there are times I wish I could just stop. I don't trust him. He nearly destroyed us. How we've got through these 6 years I don't know but I do know that neither of us could survive his rejection a second time and for me, that will always be a possibility. He' done it once, he could do it again.

I think one of the things which is helping me is the maxim that if you love a thing (or person), you have to let them go.

Love conquers all things, so I try to put love before pride, hurt and other personal emotions. I want my child to be happy and I am hurt and disappointed that her family are not part of that happiness - perhaps in time we will be again but, for now, I just have to cope by loving her (albeit from afar), wanting what's best for her and for her to be happy.

Sorry two years estrangement.

Smileless, Punk said that after two wonders estrangement, she was not that bothered about making up, she wasn't close to her daughter anyway, felt free to comment on social media. That is not the actions of someone who loves their daughter and wants to make up. What sort of relationship could you have with her grandchildren with her daughter knowing that? If I had a mother or mother in law who felt like that about me and questioned my children, I too would be wary. What gives anyone the right to speak about family problems on Facebook, that would definitely finish it for me. I would never ever discuss my grandchildren or post pictures of them without the parents consent, to talk about friends and the problems are taboo as well, no way to heal a relationship, it has to be consensual.

Smileless, Thankyou.....I will think about it. I know your advice is full of goodwill but right now, my hurt is turning to anger. I just feel, he doesn't care enough for me, that's the long and short of it. My problem is I care too much. I have to get tough. And besides, I am afraid of being told again that it's not convenient.
Maddy, there certainly is sibling jealousy and daughters in law rivalry. I know that. The two girls are polar opposite and their conversation is limited to checking on the babies....they have that in common.
Oh anyway, ...will have to put up with this for a few more years and that's it. Sorry to bother you all xx

Just thought I'd pop in and say hello to you all again. I always hope and pray that these terrible situations will be resolved happily, but sadly for many people they go on and on. I will never really understand why adult children choose to do this to loving parents. I have spoken in the past about my belief that mental health issues are responsible in some cases, also sibling jealousy seems to me to figure in many cases. Maybe there are other reasons, but none the less, my heart goes out to each and every person affected by this situation.
I struggle with my own situation but am no longer estranged, thank goodness.
Sending support to you all.

I would give it one more try crazy, contact your d.i.l. and if she doesn't arrange anything at least you gave it one more go.

Regardless of how busy they are, it's not impossible to fix something up so they can see their nan, after all 'where there's a will there's a way'. If you don't get anything arranged then you're right, enjoy the GC you can see.

Luckylegs how do you know Punk's daughter thinks her mum doesn't love her? How is any parent supposed to interact with their AC when they refuse any and all contact? As I put in a previous post, whey would an AC who has had no contact with their mother for 2 years be bothered about what she puts on FB and what right does that AC have to object to anything she may post?

When an AC decides to CO their parent(s), what that parent(s) decides to do with their life is quite frankly none of their business, just as we as estranged parents are constantly told that our AC's lives are none of ours.

My DH always had to double check with me first as it was me who did all the appointments and organising.

He would arrange something, not check with me, then I'd say 'we have XYZ planned that day' so he would have to re-arrange after he got home from work.
In the end he would just say 'wait till i get home from work so I can check with Violet' which wound me up, what he should of said is '...So I can check the diary'
Naming me made me look like the awkward one when we had just already got plans and he didn't check.

Even with both of my kids at school I'm like a bloody yoyo. Back and forth from school cause of parents evening, after school clubs, homework, projects, discos!
That's just the school.

So maybe they aren't excuses, maybe they are just really busy.
Ring her and say you can't do,say Monday and Thursday but free all the other days so whenever is best for them. Job done.

I have just texted my son to see when I can see the little ones, and guess what, he has asked me to arrange this with his wife. I know she always finds excuses, so that's why I asked him. But he has passed the buck. i'm not going to ring her....if he doesn't think it's important for his children to see their Nan and if he doesn't want to facilitate it, then so be it. I will have to learn to live with not seeing my grandchildren.......sad, but how much begging do I have to do.
This is how I look at it.....I have a few years more...I will spend that time with what IS and not with what IS NOT. I have other grandchildren who I see regularly and I am not going to feel guilty about it .....I have done all I can. Little do these AC and their partners realise that the more love their children are surrounded with, the better for their emotional development.

Punk, it is your daughter you should be talking to not Facebook, she obviously feels you don't love her, you are her mother, it must be awful to think your own mother isn't interested in you. To ask young children why they haven't visited wasn't fair on them. See it from her point of view. how can they see you when you are so hostile to their mom?

It is such a difficult place to be. I really can't say anything other that than what's been said. However if you play your part, remembering birthdays, xmas etc, I would be inclined to not do anything more for the time being, just try to be patient. If they do send you a gift, then a prompt acknowledgement without pressure seems appropriate. The whole situation is very unpleasant for you and perhaps seeing is as a long term slow process would help.

The flowers were thoughtful and kind but to then, having sent them, having given 'hope' and then refuse to acknowledge subsequent attempts at contact is IMO cruel.

Bopeep - I think that it was a positive step and that you should be pleased, but that it was not a signal that they want full contact. So be pleased but cautious would be my advice.
Of course, that's easy to say and very hard to do, but if you chase something - be it a kitten or a child - it will generally run away. You need to try to be patient and wait for them to come to you. I would be surprised if they were being intentionally cruel.