Coercive control

My sister got married 5 years ago, aged 60, and her husband is 'controlling'! NO abuse whatsoever! It is a very loving relationship. My sister willingly allows him to make all the decisions to the point of asking him while we're on the phone together. In his defence, my BiL is uncomfortable with the situation but neither of us can find a way to change her behaviour. We, her family, are just grateful that she has a kind, generous, loving husband.
Having friends who have been in abusive relationships I recognise the differences. One of those friends, who walked away from that situation, is now, after 5 years apart, back with her abusive partner despite years of counselling. Ťo say that her family are devestated and extremely concerned for her and her 2 children, is a major understatement.
Abuse, whether from parents, siblings, partners, whoever is wrong, and there is no excuse whatsoever.

* Nonnie* and others who have mentioned abuse by women, you are so right.
My son had 2 friends who have taken their lives as a result of the behaviour of their female partners and a third who is struggling with depression. All as a result of being denied access to their children and their family home.
Some of the worst physical and emotional abuse cases I worked with were inflicted by women upon their partners. Information sometimes came from the children.
In one case the father was arrested, placed in a bail hostel and only when I interviewed him did he consent to show me his horrific injuries, inflicted with a poker on his back, arms, shins and head by his wife.
I have considerable experience of all forms of emotional and physical abuse and if professionals took time to delve and not just assume or accept what they initially see, or are told, then there would be a different perspective and outlook.

I can say from experience of psychological abuse that it is not easy to 'pick up the phone' or even tell anyone else what is happening. You lose your sense of agency and wonder who you are - you almost disappear. It takes a long time to find the strength to do the terrifying thing of leaving - how on earth will someone survive, who is so insignificant and maybe has no work outside the home ? And if you leave, he will have periods with the children without you there to stand between him and them - to protect them emotionally and psychologically. If you've not experienced these things they are hard to understand. If you are experiencing something like this, do find someone to talk to - those first steps seem huge, but they can be done and you can have a future where you can be free and find a happier life. I say this while knowing that the abusive person also has his demons - he too is suffering - but we need to look after ourselves and our children. Who to talk to? I am not sure who is the best person to start with - your doctor? Maybe others can advise (I've not been able to see the video - maybe that answers this)

'social workers tend to assume the woman is telling the truth' - I know that.. because a social worker told me so.

Nonnie - I accept that one social worker made this statement to you. That social worker may have assumed the mother was telling the truth, a decent worker would investigate, analyse and reach a tentative conclusion before testing that out over the course of time.

Yes and its so insidious as others have said. Starts out as caring and loving and soon moves on to control without the partner realising what is going on. I know someone married to a person like this and all she can see is how much he cares about her not that she is being alienated from friends and family. So sad.

Control either side, man or woman is wrong. I think that a lot of decent men are kept from seeing their children when a relationship breaks down because the women want them to suffer. Equally any man that treats his wife and family like sone of you have posted area disgrace, goodness knows how children get a balanced view on partnerships. It is all very sad, this controlling of another person, you are taking their life away.

It is simplistic to say that women don't murder men so men are not abused as much. A counter argument might be that a lot more young fathers commit suicide than young mothers which may well be because of abuse. I met a policeman who told me that was what his brother did, he just couldn't cope with the constant fight to see his children.

I think we would all agree that men find it harder to admit to being abused by women than the other way round although in both cases it might not be easy.

Women do have the upper hand. How many make their man choose between her and his family? Isn't that coercion? How many withhold access to the children for no reason other than spite? Social services are inclined to assume the woman is always telling the truth against the man and take her side. Yes I know that is a sweeping statement but a social worker told me that.

Of course I am not suggesting that men are treated any worse than women but I do feel that the media talks as if coercion is only ever male on female.

DD1 was a victim. She was completely unaware of this. Eventually he had an affair with a friend of hers and left her with 3 children, penniless, homeless and feeling worthless. I had never voiced my worries ( she was rarely allowed to see me) but when they split I felt I had to make her aware. I also voiced my opinion to him whereupon he acted shocked and denied being controlling. Five years down the line he is still controlling the now teenaged children and pays child maintenance only when it suits him. If she dares to bring up the subject he punishes her by delaying payment even longer. To date he is about 2 years behind!
I recently came across this clip which rang true as being just one of his tactics.

Abusive and coercive control is as horrible and frightening and 100% for the victim, whether they are the one in ten women, or the one in a hundred males who suffer it, or whatever the figures are.

The latest figures I'm aware of say one women killed every 3 days.

I'm amazed that women would respond to the OP by immediately expressing anger towards other women and repeat the nonsense that all a woman has to do is make an allegation etc etc.

I don't deny that some women are abusive and use coercive control. It remains a fact, that women are more likely to by attacked, injured or killed by partners than men are.

I agree with you chew and I did say that there are some issues specific to men when it comes to seeking this sort of help. What needs to be thought about is what can be done to facilitate men in accessing services- part of this must be rooted in the gender stereotypes that seem sometimes to be even more entrenched than ever - young male suicidd figure are alsoI think a great concern.

You're absolutely right maryeliza; there are places for men to go to for help. But the fact is that often, those who are in abusive relationships, won't seek that help for all manner of reasons (like the reasons quoted in my earlier post). Sometimes they fear that seeking help will make matters worse. Or they don't want to face up to the fact that they're abused and live only for the periods when the abuse is in abeyance and "normality" returns.

Abuse or coercive manipulation is as painful, destructive and terrifying for men as it is for women. It's just not spoken about as much.

BTW the most cursory google search throws up various sources of help for men in abudive relationships - one of them run in partnership with Women’s Aid. I can imagine that there may be some issues that are specific to men when it comes to seeking thus sort of help and it’s right and proper that sex based services are available.

I am sure that coersive control can be committed by men or women, but usually it is by men against women. It was so hard to listen to the two young men on the news today and to know that their mother and sister were murdered as a culmination of the bullying.

I did find myself wondering what childhood experience the father had which built such a dangerous personality leading to so much trauma. I had thought more vulnerable women become victims but I understand that it is a slow erosion of self which can affect anyone, not just the weaker sisters.

MissA I agree with you. In fact, I even wonder if some of them are actually aware that they’re doing it at all, especially if their partner is compliant.

Snufivd = abusive

Dont knowing of one example from your personal experience just means that you know of one example from your personal experience. The real evidence is in the information collected on all reported domestic violence and the eventual outcomes. Women don’t have to prove anything - tell that to the women even in the last few years have reported their snudivd partners to the police, have been ignored and ended up dead.

I think that even the coercive people often don't realise what they're doing as an abuse.
They simply find ways to ensure that their (considerable) 'needs' are met, first and foremost.

I've posted about this in the past...... I know of a family, very close to me, who from all outward appearances, have everything you could wish for; beautiful home, children at university, prestige cars and their own businesses, they want for nothing. But several times a year, the woman beats her husband up so badly that he's hospitalised. Despite being repeatedly urged to leave her, or seek help, he won't. He feels that to do so would make him a laughing stock or he would lose his credibility in the business community, or it would embarrass the children if anyone knew. I have seen his injuries and they were shocking. One day, she will either hurt him so badly he will be disfigured for life or she'll kill him.
From the outside, you'd never guess that this was going on.

Watched for a while until DD admitted that her relationship was so wrong. Family rallied round and got her out of it.
Controlling behaviour like "suggesting" that when they registered the birth of the baby, they should change the surnames of her two older girls to his.
Despite all the advice she went along with it, assured that it would be better if they all had the same name once they were married. She didn't see that as exerting control.
It started to dawn on her after he made a huge fuss about taking her out for a special Valentine dinner with big hints about rings. He really enjoyed telling his friends (and the family) how she fell for it and actually thought he would propose!
Lots of more obvious examples - her clothes, cooking, housekeeping skills, driving and more.

I think there are probably people who don't even realise they're being controlled, as it can be so subtle.

The behaviour can also seem very loving - picking you up from work can seem such a loving caring thing to do that you don’t realise it’s actually aimed at controlling you. Others see you as lucky having a partner who cares so much about you

So true MissA and Maryeliza, it can be so insidious that the 'victim' may not even be aware that it's happening. Outsiders are often amazed when they discover the truth and realise how they've completely misread the signs.

Don't bother challenging me - challenge Erin Pizzey who knows far more than I. However unless you have personally experienced what she talks about then you don't know what YOU are talking about.

I know from personal sad experience that yes, a woman does only have to make a phone call and make an allegation then the man IS done for. A woman doesn't have to prove anything. Once the man is in the spiral of being accused its almost impossible to be heard fairly.

Yes females/women/whatever they are being called atm do get abused by men but surveys like this, (gender specific) are a bad idea.

Womens Aid - they're a group I've had dealings with and trust me not only the name is sexist but so are their policies.

Absolutely agree MissA. With physical violence at least you know you’ve been hit although you may well be coerced into believing you deserved it or that it’s normal.

I think there are probably people who don't even realise they're being controlled, as it can be so subtle.

And ‘the man is done for’. Really - have you seen the figures that prove this? Oh silly me how could you have done because that statement in no way reflects reality Don