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Mother/Daughter again

(47 Posts)
Grammaretto Thu 13-Dec-18 20:03:16

DD behaves as if she is the only person in the world to have young children and is wallowing in the awfulness of domestic life!
We all love her but there is no doubt she is unhappy.
What can her parents do to support her?
We don't live nearby, are not very fit and can't help financially.
I have been staying with her and helping out by babysitting, cooking etc but it feels as though it is an extra burden having me there.
If I try to make light of anything or say things will improve, or that we survived, I am guilty of being patronising.
When I ask if I am a help she says yes but as soon as I leave her awful life resumes
It looks like a perfectly normal life to me. A DH, who is kind and helpful, and 2 beautiful DC
She is quite isolated so that isn't easy and her mummy friends are back at work and she can't afford childcare.
Have any of you had similar experiences?

Synonymous Mon 17-Dec-18 11:19:25

Grammaretto there are some very helpful and kind posts on here to which it is difficult to add anything of value except my own experience as a very capable mum who was very unwell. My GP thought I had PND and insisted I tried some antidepressants but they knocked me out totally which scared me to death since I had two small children in my care at the time. My mum recognised the whole situation and told me to go back to the GP and ask for my thyroid to be checked out and that was what it was, an underactive thyroid. It took quite a while to get the dose right before I started feeling better but eventually I recovered. I was still tired but young mums generally are, it is an occupational hazard!
Even if it turns out not to be the case it could be a non-judgemental way of getting her to see her GP and you could forewarn the GP about your concerns about PND. Just a thought.smile
Btw it is also an occupational hazard as a mum and gran to be the 'whipping boy' for our children.hmm We just need to love them as much as we can in all their circumstances.

oldbatty Mon 17-Dec-18 08:01:00

Nice jumper santa.

morrisqs5 Mon 17-Dec-18 00:07:56

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

instagran Sat 15-Dec-18 22:52:52

OODLES you are a wonderful, wise woman. ?

Grammaretto Sat 15-Dec-18 22:22:20

paddyann unfortunately it isn't a town. It's a cluster of houses around a tiny village school. The nearest shop is miles away.
She does do things with the wee one during nursery sometimes but especially now it's so cold making a dash for home is as good as it gets.
In summer time it can seem like a rural idyll but the reality is different.

Urmstongran Sat 15-Dec-18 22:11:03

A thoughtful and empathetic reply oodles with plenty of helpful suggestions. And GabriellaG57 a different, more robust approach but just as worthy of consideration in my opinion. And silverlining47 another great post - you’re right, just being available to really listen makes a huge difference.
I have no words of wisdom myself to pass on Grammaretto. I hope your very tired and unhappy daughter feels happier soon. Then you will too. ❤️

paddyann Sat 15-Dec-18 17:59:25

couldn't she drop the 3 year old at nursery and find things to do for the two and a half hours in the town? Seems silly to use petrol for a double trip and be isolated when she's home when she could do something when she's out .Even a walk round the shops and a coffee would use up some time an a trip to the park with her wee one where she could arrange to meet friends .

Grammaretto Sat 15-Dec-18 16:18:16

Silverrlining47 not silverling. Sorry.

Grammaretto Sat 15-Dec-18 16:14:49

They will have benefited from your visit Silverling. Thanks for your supportive post.
Gabriella. She has a small network of other mum friends but she is rural and isolated. Friends don't pop in. Her friends from before children are far away and have gone in different directions. ie. They don't have children yet.
The nursery for her 3 yr old is a free pre-school but just 2 and a half hours a day and is a round trip of 20 miles twice. Writing that I couldn't believe it and had to check- it really is.
She does miss adult company. She says it was much easier for me as I had support. I suppose I did. I lived in a town and had neighbours and there were plenty of things to do and I walked everywhere. There was also a support network of other home mums whereas it seems most work now.

midgey Sat 15-Dec-18 14:26:22

I know you must be worn and frazzled Silver but oh your family must have really enjoyed your visit...a respite from fraught days. flowers

ffinnochio Sat 15-Dec-18 14:17:19

Lovely post silver

GabriellaG54 Sat 15-Dec-18 13:40:10

* rather insular family life. blush

GabriellaG54 Sat 15-Dec-18 13:37:12

Grammaretto
^Toddlers, swimming, nursery,
friends^. That sounds as if she meets other mums at these places and nursery...? I thought she couldn't afford that and you were looking to perhaps pay for a day's respite. Could she have one of those friends over for an afternoon with her children. A few toys to play with while your DD and friend have a good natter and perhaps coffee and cake. When you have children, things are never the same again and you should consider the emotional, physical and financial implications that come with a rather ' family life. I take it that her isolation is only in terms of adult companionship, not that she lives in a very rural area so WhatsApp, as mentioned earlier, could possibly help with that aspect. Best wishes to both of you.

GabriellaG54 Sat 15-Dec-18 13:17:45

Maybe she's a pessimist at heart. Has she ALWAYS been the type to look at the negatives in life?
It's easy to attribute her attitude to PND or any other depressive illness but that may not be the case. Was she like this after her first child?
Has she tried to find a mother and baby club nearby or some other activities such as toddlers story-time at her local library? If she has internet then she could connect with other mums in the same position via WhatsApp or Skype, when the children are fed and sleeping or playing.
The more you fuss over her the more she will wallow and be contrary over your suggestions.
Of course (and I'm mindful of other GNers jumping down my throat to tell me that I don't know how debilitating depression is) that may well be the 'diagnosis' but pills alone aren't a cure-all.
I hope you realise that you have gone the extra mile but you can't work miracles. I hope things improve...for both of you. smile

Silverlining47 Sat 15-Dec-18 13:06:40

Oodles (and others) offer very good advice but I do totally sympathise with your own feelings.
Currently both my 2 AC are struggling for completely different reasons. Like you I live a long way away (in another country actually) and have just been over for a pre-Christmas visit. I so looked forward to spending time with them. We are an affectionate and supportive family. But, in fact, I spent both visits shopping, cleaning, cooking etc (which I was happy to do) and hardly saw them because they work such long hours and were so tired and often fed up when they got home.
My DD is having counselling and I too spend all the time hearing her go round and round in circles of sadness and worry. I can only listen, listen, listen and console and cuddle her and then go to bed (or home eventually) and cry myself.
One understands that 'help' and 'advice' can be seen as patronising and unhelpful but sometimes I run out of 'oh dear' and mmmmm and other hopefully reassuring noises. I come away feeling anxious and helpless (and a little frustrated too!) but usually my daughter texts me later and thanks me for listening.
On the other hand, my own mother who was a kind soul, discouraged all conversation about sadness or difficulties as she herself found it too upsetting. This meant I bottled up everything even when going through a divorce with 2 young children and, in some ways, I don't think I ever got over that feeling of suppression.
So I offer a ((hug)) to you. And very much hope your daughter sees her life more positively soon.

Grammaretto Sat 15-Dec-18 12:33:08

oodles thanks for your long reply. It is helpful. I must watch what I say. I have been known to blurt out the wrong thing.
And you are right. Mine were small a long time ago and I think we try to forget the bad times and only remember the lovely times, holidays and highlights.
She is another person, not me, and is bound to see things differently.
I do tell her she is a good mum because she is! I just wish she was a happy mum.

oldbatty Sat 15-Dec-18 11:38:55

I know you say funds are low but could you finance a cleaner?

montymops Sat 15-Dec-18 11:12:49

Possibly the present generation of young mothers have unrealistic expectations of what it’s like to have young children- perhaps persuaded by the princess culture of social media - all glittery, smiling and happy! Well having had 3 children in 3 and a half years plus a full time job myself when the youngest was 3 - I can tell you it is mostly a grind of coping somehow - yes there were spikes of joy but it was hard work. I would have been quite depressed to have had to put up with all jolly messages about perfect holidays perfect children perfect houses on Facebook Instagram etc etc. I feel so sorry for them being bombarded with all this and it probably fuels the likelihood of PND.

mabon1 Sat 15-Dec-18 11:05:53

What about contacting her GP. I did, (he/she will never reveal who contacted them) and after some time and kind treatment she overcame her troubles.

Rosina Sat 15-Dec-18 10:54:29

Me too. I realise now I had PND, but it didn't seem to be recognised until a few years later - I was told to pull myself together. Waking up each day I felt a sense of dread and helplessness, and wondered how I could get through the day. I also had overwhelming guilt as I had a beautiful healthy baby and although we were far from wealthy we had a house and could pay our bills. I feel sad now when I think about those times as I missed a lot of the happiness of having a new baby - and my baby must have suffered a lot too with a miserable unresponsive mother. It was all too much and I couldn't cope. Having had a career and a job I loved, which I willingly left to start a family, I also missed the friends and the buzz of work, and was lonely. There is help out there - please urge your DD to get it.

TellNo1Ok Sat 15-Dec-18 10:45:48

You worry it’s only you who gets the brunt of her depression... perhaps you should be sort of pleased as she can obviously be herself with you as she appreciates you are ‘safe’ and under no circumstances would you abandon her...

4allweknow Sat 15-Dec-18 10:38:23

PND as her view on her life is so low. I had this and youngest was 2 years old before it was recognised and only when I "crashed". Try to get DD to seek help.

oodles Sat 15-Dec-18 10:37:13

Mothers don't necessarily want to solve their difficulties with small children by going back to work, especially if at the end of it they spend out so much on childcare that it is hardly worth doing moneywise. All that means us you are knackered with the job and you will need to fit in all the domestic chores and somewhere in there a relationship with 2 little children.
I'm sorry to say that what you say is not helpful. Don't make light of her difficulties, how would you feel if someone did that to you. Many grans forget what it was like to have small children 24/7, it is really hard. She is not wallowing in the awfulness of domestic life, she is living it 24 hours a day and with little prospect of help from a hardworking husband, so she is no doubt shouldering things that in an ideal world he would do.
Things will improve and we survived, well yes terribly patronising and unhelpful, sorry
Yes things will improve. Think what you'd want someone to say to you if you were in a difficult situation, would you want people to say, gosh how difficult for you,a situation like that is bound to make you feel upset, or for someone to dismiss your feelings by telling you it will get better. Why not try saying something along the lines of motherhood is nothing like the adverts, It is really really tough, being responsible for 2 little children 24/7 is so relentless, you can't switch off for a minute even when they are in bed you always have half an ear on will they wake up. That opens communication not shuts it down. If you do want to get in a bit about improving, then something like maybe its hard to think when life is so overwhelming that sometime in the future things will get better, when you are surviving day to day. Yes, we survived but that again not helpful. She will survive, yes, as you survive other difficult times, but again it comes over as less than helpful. Do you ever gently say how happy the children are, how responsive she is to their needs, how good it is to see them being so well looked after, how wonderful that she is still breastfeeding, how that is such a worthwhile thing to do for her children's health and happiness.
I'm sorry that she says things that upset you, even when they are true. My children are both adults, and compared to when they were little I have so much more time to do what I want even though I work part time, I volunteer, I have animals and have to visit my very elderly mum at the other end of the country. If I can organise my responsibilities, ie get on top of work, and ask my daughter to look after the animals I can have a day out, or a few days out, I can do the household chores and no one but me messes things up. I only felt that overwhelming feeling of complete responsibility last year when mum was in hospital and I looked after dad who by then needed 24 hour care.
She may well be depressed, but feeling understood and listened to can be really helpful, and if she feels she needs help from the gp or the local wellbeing service she can get it. She can still breastfeed on medication, so no worries on that front. Finding a local breastfeeding group can be helpful, if there is one locally. Meeting up once a month with other mums and being listened to in a non judgemental way can be so helpful. She will see other mums all struggling in different ways , and finding different solutions based on their own situation, if she goes to meetings regularly she will see mothers who felt overwhelmed when she first met them but now things are easier, which will give her hope.
It is so important to not give advice, this is usually what worked for you, but she is a different person with different children and a different home life, it will not necessarily be the right thing for her. If you can see something that might be helpful you could say something like some mothers find x is helpful but others find y helpful. Or if you had a magic lamp what 3 wishes would you ask for And never criticism. Her choices are not a criticism of your choices all those years ago, and will have been carefully considered
Its great that you are so open to exploring other ways of helping her, she is lucky to have someone who wants to be supportive

Shazmo24 Sat 15-Dec-18 10:30:35

My DD had post natal depression a year after having our first GC. It sounds as though you are helping in a way which is great but she needs to go to the Drs to have a chat. It sounds as though she is running on a low battery and just needs some help to get going again and medication will just give her a boost
Encourage to go xx

Grammaretto Fri 14-Dec-18 18:26:09

They live 3 hours drive away from us so I can't pop in. The wee one is still breastfed so I can't take them just yet. We'll see them at Christmas and perhaps something can be sorted out.
DH spoke to her today and told her we were thinking of her.
Marydoll thanks for your sympathy and Anniebach I will try to get her to see the doctor.