The games people play.

Lots of great ideas here. I guess what I would add is that perhaps the relationship which needs to be looked at first and foremost is the relationship you have with yourself. By improving self awareness and self management it (hopefully!) improves the nature and quality of the relationships we seek out, as well as our expectations of them. I have found a daily meditation practice helpful in being both less reactive, more compassionate and more grateful. At least that’s what I strive for - don’t always get it right and life is a journey of discovery...

I meant 'just add' sorry, (autocorrect)!

Very interesting conversation! Humans are fascinating and baffling. I will jnot st add mention of Families and how to Survive Them, by Robin Skynner and John Cleese. A little dated now, but I still love its humorous and yet very direct dialogue format.

I was sent on the ‘I’m OK you’re OK’ course many years ago as a work tool. Just wish I could remember what it was about

Some people play games but I think it is in the subconscious for most. The situations you encounter during your formative years influence the way you handle relationships in later life. To call it ‘games’ implies cunningly thought out plans within relationships.

I now understand why I did a lot of the things I did within my relationships. Due to family problems, I felt rejected. So I would win over partners then once I’d achieved that I would dump them. It wasn’t planned, it wasn’t done through malice; it was simply because I thought once they loved me they would leave me so I got in first.

If this is an interest of yours Namsnanny then Monicas advice is very good. To read different books on the subject to broaden your mind to different views/opinions. If it’s a field you are getting into involving a course, they’ll give you set material.

People are complicated for sure.

I am pretty sure that when my DH and I got together, because we were both escaping family traumas and upsets, we parented each other. We were equally the stable mother and father we needed and the children who finally got a chance to blossom and play. He was the kind father I hadn't had and I was a substitute for his overstrong (and somewhat bonkers) mother.

After ten years of mutual therapy we were ready to have the DC we produced who grew up a bit saner than we were. But only a bit because, of course, we passed some of the behaviours down the line. We hope we only passed the fun bits on and the DC tell us they had a great childhood.

In my own family, I am my DS's scapegoat. Whenever she's stressed or her DH or DC upset her she lets loose at me. She has no idea she's doing it as she has the self awareness of a grapefruit.

Family fun and games!

What you’ve described is a particular form of psychotherapy called Transactional Analysis (TA). It is an extremely interesting set of theories, often simplified and then misinterpreted but very effective.

I feel a bit like Gabriella, adjust to cope with the person your with, but if they like playing silly games, leave them to it.

There are lots of great courses on this subject
At the London college of Transpersonal psychology
I studied there & enjoyed every moment.

I think we all role play. Just different roles within different groups!

I’m a bit of a pushover within my family. I don’t like confrontation (and the stronger members know that). Yet when I was at work I’d happily speak up. Probably because although I liked my colleagues, I didn’t ‘love’ them hence I was not as concerned about their approval.

Hmmm. When visiting one family in-law member, they used to always serve me food they knew perfectly well that I didn't eat and would watch to see if I left it or ate it. Either way, I was on a hiding to nothing.
Items would be left in peculiar places to see whether I moved them, or spills would be left and I'd be castigated for cleaning up (trying to humiliate their OH) or leaving it (being lazy)
This was someone who had, IMO, serious manipulation issues, it all washed over me. I don't care what people say to my face or behind my back. They're only words and I'm immune to confidence-sapping verbal attacks or silly mind-games.

Yes, it is a big and interesting subject. There have been some very good replies regarding Transactional Analysis.

I would say generally to observe situations to note the simple way in which this is working eg learned behaviour.

Eg if a child throws a tantrum and gets what he wants then he has learnt to control that situation. It is also bad parenting. If he is told otherwise and changes that behaviour to be more appropriate he will get what he wants and learn the best way to approach things going forward.

This continues throughout life in different situations with different people but it is initially learnt through the parent child model.

Enjoy your reading.

Namsnanny try "Families and How to Survive Them" written as a conversation between John Cleese and Robyn Skynner - a very easy read, very informative but also very amusing. It helped me a lot back in the day.

Also try "I'm Ok You're OK" by Thomas Anthony Harris and 'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward. It's not about blaming parents it's just about understanding yourself. Good luck.

What to read depends what you are wanting to understand.

However, "Scripts people Live" Claude Steiner, "Born to Win" James and Jongway are some of the books that followed "Games People Play" and I got a better understanding from these books.

I would have a good look around the net before you get more books. That way you know if you they come close to giving you what you are looking for.

TA Tutor.Com has some good resources, there are so many good books out there. All mine are very much out of date and unless you are wanting to really get into studying read what helps you understand things.

Words of caution :-) no book or psychological model is ever likely to give us all the answers. People are, for the most part, just trying to get through life the best way they can.

We are just trying to get through life the best way we can and yes you can see "Games" being played, "The Drama Triangle" being gone round and the "Parent, Adult Child" in action, "Racket Systems" working and so on.

Learning can help make your life better and the lives around you better, understanding what you've learnt is one thing being able to use what you've learnt isn't always easy.

Good Luck and may you enjoy your reading.

Wow what intellectual Grandmas.... I applaud you.?????

I read Games People Play and I'm OK, You're OK 30 or more years ago too. I found them very helpful introductory texts.

The field of psychology has expanded enormously since and now includes neuroscience and genetics as strands on which psychotherapies are based. It's probably worth reading a number of general introductory texts. Psychology for Dummies is in most libraries for instance. Also some U3A groups study psychology and the OU and further education courses are a good way of gently exploring with others.

There was a chap called Maslow (can be Googled) who came up with a list of fundamental human needs that we all strive for. Also a chap called Bowlby who looked at the relationship between mothers and children and how the quality of this set the scene for a contented and successful life, or not.

Here's the hierarchy of needs, you might see game playing as a way of getting those needs met. If you haven't had an accepting form of parenting which allows you to ask for what you need, then you might play games instead. People who are passive aggressive are unable to ask for what they want, for instance.

www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Living with other people is a fascinating business!!

I read "The Games People Play" about 30 years ago. I do recall that it was helpful in working out why people do the things they do, and how relationships can evolve over time .

I do think it's helpful to read "self help" books, if only to get a few ideas of how to cope.

The best one I ever read was "My Mother, Myself" by Nancy Friday. I'd had a terrible relationship with my mother over the years, but reading that book made me realize that Mum was only playing the hand of cards that she'd been dealt ( having been an abused child) . I was able to forgive and to move on .

I read Berne's book some years ago now and it did help to explain how and why some people behave as they do. I have read a great deal on the subject since and the subject of emotional intelligence featured largely in my work as a manager and a lecturer in management. I think its fascinating as indeed people are - often frustrating but ultimately fascinating.
I'm dealing with someone at the moment who has all the subtlety of a charging bull so I am trying to work out what my best response to him should be - being nice hasn't worked what he seeks is total compliance. As its golf club politics I think what I will do is behave as if he was a charging bull and jump over the fence- avoidance tactics I think.

From the moment we are born we have to live with other people and are dependent on them and have to negotiate with them to stay alive.

Some of us get the hang of it quite quickly and negotiate quite successfully and others for all sorts of reasons don't.

I am very wary of clinging onto one book, one author one view. Psychologists, in particular, seem very prone to taking to one theory and seeing it as the answer to all of life's ill.

Read at least five or six books, preferably ones that disagree and contradict each other, before you reach any view.

If you’re interested in TA namsnanny but find the traditional text books hard going have a look at Counselling for Toads by Robert de Board. It’s written in Wind in the Willows style illustrating how this approach considers day to day interactions. Please bear in mind this is only one approach and in my view the term ‘games’ doesn’t necessarily imply conscious manipulation of other people but rather a basis to understand the roles we can all slip into when interacting with others. As loopy says we then have choice, do we continue along a well trodden path or make a change which will move an interaction on.

You can call it games or you could call it using emotional intelligence. By which I mean modifying your approach in order to avoid confrontation and move things forward amicably.
Like choosing the right time to tell someone something, not when they are tired and hungry etc.

This is one of the reasons I don't bother much with people any more. There is always some sort of power struggle going on.

I think wanting, anything at all in a particular way, is the root cause of game playing- The more difficult it is to be selfless and or flexible with ones desires, the easier it is to engage in playing games- Two people might share a desire for the same thing but each persistent about achieving it differently- Communication breaks down and endless energy is spent engaging in the game of persuasion-

Namsnanny, 'Games People Play' was one of the books we used on a preliminary counselling course about 34 years ago, as was 'I'm OK, You're OK'. My life at the time was at a very difficult stage with my marriage breaking down and I found texts like these gave me useful insights into my relationship and enabled me to 'connect the dots' and acknowledge what had been going on for years.

The fascinating thing is that we are all influenced & affected by our own circumstances personalities etc. & to some extent we can pinpoint cause & affect but never entirely.

FountainPen.... Thanks a lot I'll do that!
Regards