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Difficult DIL

(77 Posts)
Bishop Sun 14-Apr-19 20:30:25

My oldest son and his wife have been married for almost 20 years. They have one child (my only grandchild), a six year old boy. I have three sons total but he is the only one married and living nearby. We lived an hour away until about a year ago when we moved within 15 minutes. The move was for my husband's job but I am certainly happy to be closer to my grandson.

I have never had a close relationship with my DIL although I have tried over the years. She seems to have contentious relationships with almost everyone including her sister with whom she has had physical confrontations to the point of requiring stitches and is often at odds with her parents. She appears to be the type of person that gets satisfaction out of a knock-down drag-out fight followed by making up. I just don't and can't operate that way. I avoid her as much as I can. She has cost me friends by getting into fights with them on social media and everyone in my family of origin just cringes when they know she will be at any event. My son tells me that she is crazy and that, as soon as their son is old enough to choose his own custodial parent, they will divorce. Of course, I also see him be very nice and accommodating and to end phone calls with "I love you". I told him the other day that that is very confusing to me but that it is his business, that I am here if he needs me but I won't interfere.

Here are some examples of the interaction between my DIL and myself. When the grandson was 3, he told me that he wanted to be an astronaut when he grew up and wanted to go to the moon. Then he pointed at me and said, "And I want you to go with me, Grandma." His mother said, "Well, she'll be dead by then." She never has a kind word to say to me and has a great deal of resentment for any time I try to spend with my son, even if we do something like meet for coffee in honor of my birthday. In late December, she physically attacked my son, scratching and hitting him to the point that he had to wear turtlenecks for the next several days to work. She also attacked him last September. Those are just the two times I know about. After the last attack, she called me crying because he was upset about it, didn't understand that she felt out of control, and didn't sympathize with her that she was upset it happened. She said they were having a nice weekend and she just flipped out. I was supportive and calm, advising her to see her doctor. That was my behavior toward her, but inside I am incredibly disturbed, angry, and worried about my son and grandson. I found out that she had gotten off her thyroid medication over Christmas. She asked me to accompany her to a counselor's appointment in February which I quickly agreed to in the hope that we'd have a more positive relationship. She spent the hour laying out rules for how I was supposed to act. The counselor had to call her down twice for being so contemptuous toward me and I guess the light came on for me in the session -- no matter how nice, helpful, supportive I try to be, she feels nothing but contempt toward me. My son told me last week that she has been asking him to minimize contact with me because it stresses her out. He also told me that when the three of them walk anywhere together, she insists my son be in the middle because their child should not come between them. That was disturbing to me. And I'll add that the vast majority of her conversations with me are nothing more than her bitching about my son. I HATE that and have tried to get her to stop but she won't. She screams and fights with my son in front of my grandson and I am really worried about him.
Bottom line and questions: Is this the way some people act in families and I have just been too sheltered? My son tells me there is nothing I can do to please her so I shouldn't try but I see myself being edged out of the grandson's life more and more so, until the counselor's session, I kept trying. I don't know how to be able to spend time with my grandson without having to spend time with her. And, honestly, if I asked my son to come over without her, I would fully expect him to say that if she isn't welcome, he won't come over either. He probably wouldn't do that but, on some level, I would respect him if he did. I am worried about my grandson. I feel like giving up but my son tells me the grandson often begs to come spend time at my house (without his parents) so I know he loves his Grandma despite what he might hear about me from his mother. Advice for dealing with a difficult DIL?

jeanie99 Sat 27-Apr-19 08:28:10

From what you have said this is my comment forwhat it is worth.
When we look at a marriage from the outside of it we make assumptions about the couple which may or may not be accurate.
The reality is that no one knows what plays out in a relationship other than the couple themselves.
Your son tells you this or that it may be true I'm sure it is but he may not be telling you everything, which he shouldn't of course.
His wife sounds from what you have said very controlling with anger issues and has difficulty maintaining relationships with her own family.
This is something you cannot do anything about unless she acknowleges this and is agreeable to seeing a professional with regard to her issues.
Your son is the person to try and persuade her to do this not you.
My worry would be if the little one was in danger and your son is the person to know if there is a chance of that and he should take steps in a situation like that.
Are you a person who can cook well, manage your home have friends and generally pretty much in control of your own life. She may well be very jealous of you but you cannot alter this.
I have learned in life that you cannot alter another person only yourself and you cannot make someone do something they do not want to do.
I would keep in touch with your DIL carry on reasuring her of your support basically keep trying. It's hard but if you want to see your GS and son don't loose touch.
I am assuming she is not taking drugs or drinks too much in which case this is clearly more serious.

Emm14 Sat 27-Apr-19 07:51:10

One word - narcissist.

Starlady Fri 19-Apr-19 12:20:42

Also, I hate that you're treated so blatantly differently from her relatives when it comes to things like gifts. But you say the gift-rule is DS' rule, not hers. Perhaps she will only accept HIS rules where HIS relatives are concerned? That's not fair to you, imo, but I think it reflects another conflict between them, not anything against you. That's probably why she doesn't want you to mention it, as I imagine your bringing it up exacerbates the conflict. I'm so sorry about this, but I think it would be better if you stop mentioning it as it doesn't get you any results if you do, anyhow. Please just concentrate on getting gs the best gift you can each time (as I'm sure you do). Since you keep some toys for him at your house, surely there you can have as many toys as you like. It sounds as if gs loves you very much, so I don't think the number of gifts you get him for this/that occasion has affected anything.

Hopefully, this issue, as well as others will be worked out in counseling. But they may need to find a different counselor. Also, Iv heard that abusive people don't do well in marriage counseling. So ds and dil may each need some individual counseling to help them solve their problems. He may need it to help him sort out his feelings and decide if and when to seek a divorce, etc. In fact, I think he should go for individual counseling regardless of what she does. But I know he'll have to come to that himself.

Starlady Fri 19-Apr-19 12:05:49

Oh, Bishop, I am so sorry about this. It must hurt terribly to see ds and gs in this situation. Based on your last post, though, I think you're dealing with this very well at this point. Just want to add that I don't think you should listen to dil's complaints about ds, just change the subject or find a reason to end the conversation when she starts. I know it will be harder not to listen to ds, but since he only seems to gripe if you bring it up, I think you should avoid bringing it up with him. If you feel you must for some reason, keep the conversation brief, as it only serves to aggravate you.

I have no trouble believing that gs enjoys spending time at your home, especially since there is a calmer atmosphere there. Does he ever get to sleep over?

As for seeing ds and gs w/o dil, I agree that ds might object if you didn't invite her though, apparently,he has met you for coffee for your birthday. Have you tried just saying you understand if she doesn't want to come? No offense, but since there are tensions between you, she might take you up on that faster than you expect. Worth a try, I think. Hugs!

Bishop Fri 19-Apr-19 01:21:16

Mans many thanks to you all. Your advice/wisdom/perspectives have been invaluable. Today someone recommended the book Boundaries so I will be downloading that to my Kindle to read on vacation next week. I cannot do more than just be available and to be a calm, loving place for the GS to visit. I have to rely on his father to make sure that happens. I have pointed out to my son that I think it is emotionally abusive to have his son witness his mother's craziness but that is all I can do. Besides, if and when they divorce, I do not want to have been part of bringing that about. I just have to trust that he will do what is best of his son and himself.

DillytheGardener Fri 19-Apr-19 00:27:02

Goodness Bishop,

You poor thing you're between a rock and a hard place. I agree it sounds like your son is in a very unhealthy relationship. Awful that he feels trapped into staying with her until the children are older.

I would recommend they go to RELATE counselling, it's low cost and comes pretty highly recommended.

I would also call the below link to ask their take on the situation. I would stay neutral with DIL and keep and an open line of communication with your son. You don't want the situation to suddenly esculate. Good luck, and keep us updated.

domestic-abuse.org/helpline?src=tcu21&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwODlBRDuARIsAMy_28WBtJ0v_pUiTmhRK_fyBgAvL2gR57ABfPD9vZloa1vBvVKuUF11KEAaAoQzEALw_wcB

llizzie2 Thu 18-Apr-19 22:44:54

It is a very old family conflict. Jesus said 'when a man marries he leaves his parents home and cleaves to his wife and the two become one'.

Nothing new there then. I think it is possible that DIL are almost expected to come between their husband and inlaws. That is a big problem. I think DIL put up a barrier to prevent a relationship continuing between DH and MIL. It is one of those things people grow up with and put up a defensive barrier. You cannot stop this. You could be the kindest and most generous of MILs and still receive the same.

All you can do is keep visiting for the sake of your DG in case their arguments affect him.

grannygranby Tue 16-Apr-19 11:13:16

‘She has even made him move up North.’
That made me laugh. (I ran away to ‘the North’ from London with a baby yonks ago to my sister who was at art school in Leeds. Never moved back. ) still amazed by the northern prejudice but then think good, it will keep them where they are.smile

Alison1963 Mon 15-Apr-19 20:06:25

I have dreadful problems with my DIL and she's brought havoc into our family. I understand. It's so Distressing. All we can do is be there for our sons. They'll need us if/when they leave their wife. Good luck to you.

jefm Mon 15-Apr-19 17:31:29

It is always so sad to hear these posts re DILs and MILs but reality has it, if you have read them over a number of years many many grans have to work their way through the relationship. I have no doubt that many DILs would say the same .I have done that for 14 years and have given up trying to build a relationship with my DIL. it works better that way. there are the odd occasions when we all meet but often she decides not to be there when i am around. They live 200 miles away so its not as obvious as it would be for the GC if i was just around the corner. I stay in there for my son and no he doesn't talk about his relationship and of course I stay in there for my GC. I have tried everything and nothing but nothing works so as others have said life is too short! I still manage to have a great telephone and letter bond and i have them to myself a few days a year. In this instance the abuse is disturbing for your son and your GC but it has to be your son who deals with all of this. For your own sake stand back and be grandma as and when you are permitted to be. I don't envy where you are but the best of luck for the future with a grandson who will know and love you- whatever the Circumstances! PS i was appalled as others have been at Grumpys message - it should be taken down- it doesn't sit with grans net values of being able to share a problem without being judged.

Caro57 Mon 15-Apr-19 17:26:07

It sounds like an abusive relationship and sticking in it will not do your GS any good. He’s 6 - do you and you DS really think he is blind to what is happening? Atmosphere if not actual actions. Not sure where you are but a UK family court will take into account her history, get counsellor reports etc. As they are it going to leave a child in a potentially unsafe environment. DS should get professional advice

eilys Mon 15-Apr-19 16:33:05

Any type of violence unacceptable, does grandson see this? If he does will accept it as normal behaviour,not good for a young child,waiting until he is older not acceptable your dil has obviously got mental health problems.needs to be sorted sooner rather than later

sodapop Mon 15-Apr-19 16:12:10

Oh dear Niuclas imagine having to move 'up North' that must be hellish for all concerned.
This situation is abusive and nothing like children falling out.

Niucla97 Mon 15-Apr-19 15:43:30

I am sorry for you but I must agree that it's best to keep out of it. A bit like when children used to 'fight' - while you were falling out with their mother they were friends again.

You are fortunate that you have contact with your son and grandson. My elder son is in a mentally abusive marriage. His wife has over the years totally isolated him from everyone not only his family , friends and work colleagues but eventually his employer. He was treated like one of the family but she made his position untenable. She has even made him move up North.

ElizabethKathryn Mon 15-Apr-19 15:33:02

I am a new grandmother- 3 yr old and 3 mo old. I had concerns regarding my SIL exhibiting attributes of control and isolation. I needed clarification as to my role here as control is a form of abuse. I sought help myself from a counselor. It helped me tremendously!

Bishop Mon 15-Apr-19 15:21:30

I have read with great interest all of the responses, even Grumpy's. A few points to clarify and a couple of responses.
The counselor DIL and I saw is the same one they had seen as a couple for the past few years. My son won't go anymore because the counselor (according to him) just keeps trying to get the two of them to make deals about behavior but the DIL won't abide by them and there are no consequences. He saw a lawyer a few months ago. I do not completely understand why he is staying but that is his business. DIL has, for the most part, quit drinking. I think he thought that might improve things somewhat but I think things are worse than ever.
Also, DS hasn't really come to me with any of this. If I try to discuss my concerns with him, he will respond by telling me she's crazy, to ignore her, and to quit trying to be nice in the hope I can have a positive affect.
I agree that it takes two to tango. My son can be rigid and self-centered. He does not drink and never has, and insists the family (especially GS) not eat sugar, junk food, etc. And many of their arguments happen because he wants to keep their home from becoming too cluttered with "stuff". Her sister is a bit of a hoarder and he does not want that situation in his own home His rule is that I can only give one gift at Christmas or birthday and he would rather I provided an experience/outing instead. I thought that was THEIR rule but it is clear the rule only applies to me as her family is allowed to give as many gifts as they want. And one of the rules I got in the joint counseling session was that I was not allowed to comment on that. So be it. If I buy something for him, he knows that it must stay at Grandma's house. We have set up a really cute play area for him under the stairs and he keeps his toys from us there.
It's tough but I will hang in there Last week he stayed here on Sunday as my DS and DIL were preparing for his birthday party. He brought along a big stuffed bear DIL's sister had given him. There was a hole on the back of its neck so I stitched it up for him. He threw his arms around me neck and thanked me because he was so happy it was fixed. When I told me son later about the wonderful hug I got, he said, "Yeah, his mother told him that that was HER bear from HER sister and she had wanted to hole there."
And my DIL is hypo-thyroid, not hyper. I think she has anxiety issues and is co-dependent. I got help for my co-dependency issues a few years ago and she agreed to go to meetings and asked for my support in that. We could not find a meeting of Co-dependents Anonymous anywhere near us so I think she dropped treating that issue.
I realized this morning that I had been denying to myself just how angry I am that she attacked my son in December.

ayokunmi1 Mon 15-Apr-19 15:11:29

What a dreadful life.This is her son and shes right too be upset.Who could and would choose this to happen to any of their children.* gramps*we must try to be a little more kind towards others. Her daughter in law cannot prove its her MIL
OP I pray that your son makes the right decision
Make yourself available to give support and advice not in a critical way but in a generous and calming way all the best

crazyH Mon 15-Apr-19 15:09:02

Grumpy, this is a forum for grandparents to air their 'woes' and in most cases get a sympathetic and empathetic ear. You are not welcome on this thread, IF you wish to spout abuse .

DawnS Mon 15-Apr-19 14:49:32

Last post went in wrong place. I meant I agree with others thinking Grumpy Grandad is unkind, NOT that I agree with him.

knickas63 Mon 15-Apr-19 14:45:13

It sounds as if she has Mental Health issues, and your son us trying to smooth things over. You can love someone but find them very difficult to live with. Try and bide your time, but be ready to support your son if needed, if he does indeed leave her, but understand he may not. It sounds abusive to me. If your sone bring the subject up again, make sure you are armed with help that you can direct him to for abused men. Some people are just volatile, and come from volatile families, and it is all they know. Volatile isn't always a bad thing, can make things interesting! However, in this case I woule be wary. I am glad she has reached out for counselling, and hope she is still going. Self awareness comes before healing.

DawnS Mon 15-Apr-19 14:44:42

I agree, Grumpy Grandad , you are entitled to your views but please be aware that you may come across as being challenging to someone who is upset. Empathy costs nowt!

oodles Mon 15-Apr-19 14:25:50

It's abuse, just the same as if it was the other way round. You can't make him report it or leave but you can encourage him to document the abuse, take pictures, record incidents. If he won't, you keep a record. A use if a parent is classed as child a use even if they don't think the child notices. If he wants any chance if custody he needs to be able to able to show the abuse. There is help out there for male victims. Don't know where they are but if they're in this area they can help www.stayingput.uk.net/
If only to talk to people who know what they're talking about and the implications of any course of action. If it is really down purely to not taking medication, and she will address the issue then maybe he can stick it out, if she is just a nasty cow but it is a.long time.to.stuck it out though. Try and behave in a way that if ds does decide for whichever reason to leave he feels he can reach out to you

Elderlyfirsttimegran Mon 15-Apr-19 14:18:20

I have experience of violent behaviour in my own family and eventually cut off all contact with them. It’s an abusive relationship and very difficult for most men to admit to suffering physical abuse from their wife. As others have said, the most important person in this is your grandson. I can believe that he would like time alone with grandparents, to have a sleepover for example. I think the counselling route is probably the only way forward unless your son decides to remove his child from the home for their safety.

minxie Mon 15-Apr-19 14:08:40

Your son should really be keeping a diary of all these things that are going on. It can be used as evidence
Your son and grandson are being mentally abused, coerced and this is against the law what ever sex is being the bully
You need to talk to your son candidly and alone to find out if he wants out
With evidence your son could get custody
A man was saved recently hours from death by the hands of his vile partner and she went to prison
So they will take seriously any evidence of abuse
Your grandsons future mental health is in jeopardy, also he may think that this is normal behaviour from women and follow in his Dads footsteps

Mawee Mon 15-Apr-19 13:40:18

A serious clash of personalities. Your poor son