advice needed!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MOnica - I know I have fed you this in drips so to speak
but yesterday was a very difficult day for me and I
apologise if I did not give you the whole picture and
believe me I have still only touched the tip of the iceberg.
Some things are just too painful at the moment. Thanks
for your advice.
Lessimore - Having known my daughter in law for nearly
ten years and having been to Poland I realize that the
Polish mentality is different and have not hidden that my
dil has been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. It is extremely difficult to deal with in family life
Very small example - turning up three hours late for
Christmas dinner at my daughters - no apology and had to
warm herself up by the fire before we could all eat. To
challenge her would have caused a massive row.
The first sleepover I had for my grandchild I took her back
the next evening at agreed time and my dil was on the
doorstep as my daughter and I arrived with grandchild
She said she was just going out and that my son would
soon be finished work so we should go inside and wait for
him. Did not even look in the pram.
You see if challenged on her behaviour she becomes so
full of hatred towards the person challenging and that
causes huge problems for everyone.

At the risk of offending, the Polish mentality is different ,plus MH issues, this is important in your narrative.

Delaware thepicture you are painting now is very different from the simple problem you presented in the OP.

I think your son needs to speak to a solicitor ASAP with the possible intention of taking out some kind of restraining order forbidding his wife from taking the child out of the country without his consent.

Yes she is Polish and has mental health probs.

Am I right in thinking DIL is Polish and has MH problems?

delaware123 no you are not alone, sometimes we the people giving child care get taken for mugs, i have tried talking to my daughter in law and my son but it goes in one ear and straight out the other.

Thankyou both for your advice. My son has told me that
if there is any mention on Saturday of dil family taking her
back to Poland then he will just scoop his daughter up and
leave the house. I advised him to seek legal advice and also
to contact the police if this happens. Can you imagine the
mayhem there would be without police attendence
As for myself, which is obviously at the moment
almost incidental compared to what he may have to go
through this weekend, I did find out that visitation rights
for grandparents is almost always granted unless there is
a history of the grandparent having been violent towards
the child or neglectful and so on. I never thought I would
ever have to seek such advice but here we are.

Elaine except you can apply to the court for leave (permission) to apply for contact with a grandchild. Im sure Delaware has found this in her research of the matter. It will then be for the court to grant the leave so she can pursue this course of action. I'm told it can run into £thousands but the chances are she would succeed because of all the childcare she has been providing and the courts would consider the impact of nc on the grandchild.

Delaware123 it does sound like the parents might take the child so I hate to say this but your son should consult a lawyer ASAP specialising in family law because if they do it will be much harder for him to have any contact with his daughter in Poland. And as lots of others have experienced grandparents have no rights where grandchildren are concerned unless given them in a court order.

So I am not alone then Bopeep14. I think that maybe she
will try to stop me seeing my grandchild. I actually asked
my son this and he said he would always bring her round to
see me. Think how much trouble that could cause within
his marriage though. I certainly I would not want him
bringing her round without dil knowing so just to settle my
mind a bit I did some research into grandparents rights
and discovered that if it came to that, I could go through
the courts which would leave my son out of all of it.
Its early days yet but it was worth doing the research.

Are they going to stop you seeing your grandchild or is it just that they no longer want free child care?
My Grandchild's mother does exactly the same finishes work goes to the gym or does her shopping before coming for her child, whilst i am here dealing with a very grumpy toddler. It really gets to me sometimes.
I would leave it alone for now they will realise soon enough what they are missing.

Thanks for that Gillybob. Not in a million years would I
expect an apology from her. Just for the record my son is
6'4" tall and ex-army. I feel so sorry for all those men out
there who have the same problems as he has. Frankly I
think he would have left long ago if it wasnt for his
daughter. Due to my dil personality I think he would worry
about leaving his daughter and would only leave with
his daughter in tow. She would drive you to distraction

Personally and for what its worth I think your DiL is behaving like a two faced, spoilt brat.

She accepts your free childcare but takes advantage of you by going out for drinks or the gym after work when SHE SHOULD BE HEADING HOME TO LOOK AFTER HER CHILD !

She blows her stack because you take your DGC to McDonalds for a treat when she takes the child there herself.

….and don't get me started on the comment about "someone from a council estate".

I look after my 4 DGC regularly (have done since birth) and have never once been told what I can/cannot feed them or where we can/cannot go. My DDiL and DD trust my own judgement. Why would they not? I am looking after our precious DGC.

My guess is that she needs you more than she realises and will be back for more help, but don't expect an apology. People like her are never in the wrong.

You are spot on there crazyH. I had asked my son if it was
OK and he had said it was fine but then the next day dil
phoned me to tell me that she would never take her there
and that she probaby now had cancer (really!) and that
I was no different to a woman from a council estate (I was
not offended personally by that comment but offended for
all those good, decent women who live on council estates)

Thankyou Bordersgirl57 for that support and
understanding. It meant so much to me

I think what OP is trying to say is that her d.i.l. doesn't approve of the OP taking the child to Macdonalds even though the d.i.l. takes the child there. That's my understanding.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

About McDonalds - I know I havent made myself clear
so hear goes. Her argument was that she would never
take her child there and that I was acting like a woman
from a council estate and that I would not be looking
after her anymore. She has taken her there.
I need to explain that for the past six days my dil has been
in Poland on business with her company. Her parents
happen to leave nearby and so she has taken her daughter
with her for a visit. They are not returning with her
because of her having seen a psychiatrist, that happened
last year. She returns on Saturday with no child-care for
Monday and we know that her mother would not step
into that role in England. There had been no plan for
them to return with my dil this was something that had
been arranged this week. Also, when my son and dil
visited them in May my dil suggested to my son that
it might be a good idea if their daughter stayed with
the grandparents for the summer. My son made it clear
that he would not want that - firstly he would miss her
too much but they also have a river running through the
garden. He said that might be a good idea when she was
a lot older but not for the whole summer. I imagined that
I would be looking after my grandchild until latest 6.30
By the time her mother gets in she is in her cot fast asleep
It is a muddle - more than a muddle and we will all have
to wait until their return on Saturday to see what happens

I reckon you need a really good chat with your son, it shouldn't be hard to catch him if he is in first, just so you know what he is thinking about all this because once her parents arrive I have a feeling all sorts of things could happen rather quickly. They may well be wanting to take their daughter and GC back home for a "holiday" and your son needs to work out how he will handle things. You have got over involved but that can't be changed now so you need to look to the future.

Oh dear seems a big old muddle I too still dont understand the Mac Donald’s concern
9 in the morning till 9 at night sounds ridiculous and probably wasn’t the best thing to have agreed to in the first place
The world seems determined to label the daughter in law with something so now it’s the ‘in law’ disease of narcissistic personality I would imagine the parents are coming over unexpectedly if the daughter has just been seeing doctors or psychiatrists or have your family diagnosed her ?
It all sounds really muddled and difficult I too, like others on here, advised step back and wait and see You do sound a little bit over involved in their life Let them sort it all out for themselves

Thankyou for all your support. To answer a few questions
My son has his own removals business and a lot of his work
is during the evening. He was often in before my daughter
in law and he never goes out after work. Insofar as McDonalds is concerned she told me that my "services"
were no longer required based on that one trip - I had
never taken her before - to McDonalds albeit with my
sons permission. I felt I was being punished for putting s
stop to her being able to go to the gym and out for drinks.
She and my husband have both taken her to McDonalds
before now. My grandchild had been sleeping over once
a week so I have got to know her and am used to her and
it suited my daughter in law just fine. She has now been
diagnosed with a narcissistic personality disorder and it
is extremely difficult for my son. Her parents are coming
over this weekend from Poland - a trip right out of the blue - and my son thinks that they may be under the
impression that they are going to take his daughter back
with them - so child-care sorted and once again all free.
Of course, he is not going to allow this to happen but
really, he could do without this. It is more than troubling

I'd bite your tongue as others have suggested.

However, I do think your DIL has made use of you and you seem to have done a tremendous amount of childcare. I would not have used my mother or MIL in that way and they would not have made it possible for me to do so.

Leave the situation for a while. I don't quite understand why she objected to the child being in McDonalds with you if she has taken the child there herself.

I think your DIL will be lucky to find anyone else who is prepared to provide as much childcare as you do so she may have to back down.

I wonder if you discussed childcare much before the baby was born. I find it hard to imagine any grandparent offering to look after the DGC for 12 hours a day 24/7.
I think you should be grateful to take a back seat for a while.
You said you and the whole family were concerned for DiL's health. Does that mean you discuss her behind her back with your other children?

It seems to me that if your DIL is used to using her evenings on her own terms then she will soon be asking you to babysit again. She won't find any other daycare that allows late pick up after work.

I would sit back for a while. Obviously this isn't just about your DIL; your son needs to be involved as well. Let her cool off and hopefully have discussion with your son and solve day care issues. I do feel you have been too generous and they have been too assuming. Hopefully you can come to a better agreement.