Son and daughter don't get on

Most European countries do not drink all day and many, like France, where I am at the moment, have a very high alcoholism rate, which is a cause of national and governmental concern. Our immediate neighbours became teetotal after their alcoholic son crashed his moped into a telegraph post and suffered head injuries so serious he lives in a high dependency care unit.

I am one of those who has been judgmental. I have seen too many people's lives including children's lives damaged by alcohol.

I am not teetotal but I think the pleasures of alcohol are grossly overrated. The feeling of even a slight effect of alcohol is unpleasant. Not dissimilar to the feelings of dizziness I am currently suffering from with an inner ear infection, every one feels very sorry for me for feeling as I do. The feeling the following day, after drinking too much is worse and during the periods of drunkenness, as the OP shows, people have rows, disagreements, do stupid things, are prone to violence, one night stands and can end up dead by falling over, driving cars or falling into rivers. What is not to like?!!!!!!!!!

Since I came to France a week ago, I have had a glass of cider, the local drink, most days.I love it. It has a lower alcohol content than British cider. DS &DDiL opened a bottle of wine and had a glass each, most nights and left the bottle on the side for the following evening/s.

When drinking leads to family arguments and unpleasantness, yes, I am judgmental.

In your place I would invite the "children" in batches, so that the sister-in-law conflicts don't occur,

I know this is not very funny, but it was what my grandparents chose to do after their two daughters-in-law (my mother and my uncle's wife) fell out.

If instead of inviting the whole family to London for your birthday, you invite neither your son nor daughter on the day itself, but each with their family for a small celebration on two different days, that might just bring them to their senses. After all they are bound to notice the others aren't there and ask why.

So tell them how much it upsets you that your daughter and daughter-in-law apparently cannot get on, so from now on you won't invite them all at the same time, as you dislike their rowing in public.

We all dream of the loving family. But reality is usually different. I once read that when you decide to have a second child it's the same as a husband saying to a wife, "I love you so much dear that I've decided to take a second wife." The first child is often resentful. Most children do not want siblings and sibling rivalry is normal. I am 70 (the eldest of 2) but wish I was an only child and always have done. We mean very little to one another really. My theory is that siblings only get on when one allows the other one to be "top dog". If you study this you'll realise I'm right.

Starlady, to clarify :
No alcohol was served at the children's tea party. But....
After everyone left, except family, alcohol was served.
Our children were in bed.
My daughter is a teetotaller
I did have 2 glasses of Prosecco. I don't need much to get me 'bit drunk' (more lightheaded than drunk).
D.i.l cried because her husband (my son) told her she was bullying my daughter (his sister). Honestly, I don't know what the reference point was. They were all chatting away about this, that and the other. Music, TV, Boris. Each with their own opinions.
Our family comprises of very opinionated adults.
Frankly, there was no shouting or gnashing of teeth. My opinion is that alcohol brings out suppressed emotions.
Spoke to d.i.l.this morning She seems ok with me, but is still unhappy with my son. I'm sure they'll patch things up.
The fact remains, we will still get together, I hope, and we will still have little niggles as long as they don't turn into full blown war.
Thanks again for reading

Did you get a taxi home?

For goodness sake, are we to assume that none of us ever had a drink whilst our children were young. I remember having a drink post children's party to get over the stress of it.

CrazyH once our children are grown we have to let them sort out their own issues. It's hard to see siblings not getting along. All you can do is be there for them and not get involved unless its necessary.

—hello—

No Gabriella - my teetotal daughter brought me home

Hello LynW - can you tell us more about yourself. You're not my d.i.l., are you? ?

Whoops. Didn’t mean to post!

Sorry crazyH. No I’m not your daughter-in-law. Genuinely posted in error - not sure at all how that happened! Do hope you can resolve your problems.

Morethan2

We always feel some responsibility if any of our children are unhappy don’t we?

Realistically, we know it’s more to do with the choices they’ve made than our parenting, but somehow, we always wonder if it’s down to us in some way

If there was an argument, You and your son should stand up for the person who has been wronged. I despair when spouses can’t have their own opinion and have to support their wives/husbands regardless how silly and idiotic their behaviour. Justice, and good sense go out of the window creating resentments that linger and fester in families. People don’t support the issue but the person and that is just wrong. It gives self indulgent and spoilt people a carte blanc to act totally unreasonable and the arguing it will never end.

My youngest daughter was privately educated and it was quite normal for children’s parties to have alcohol (beer and wine, never spirits) served to both parents who were usually invited as well as family members. Never recall any problem with this at all. They’d always be drivers who weren’t drinking.

I would expect my husband to support me and if he disagreed to tell me privately not in front of family who were part of the problem.His sister is family BUT as his wife I come first

Paddyann

I agree, there has to be loyalty between husband and wife, at least publicly, what you have to say once you’re alone is a different matter

Oh crazyH…...I bet you wished you hadn't posted now??!!

I'm with Paddyann here. You should be completely loyal to each other in public.

Honestly, I would let your dd and son deal with this issue between themselves.
They are adults and a third person getting in the middle as a mediator is not going to help, unless it is requested.
Just because they are siblings, they are not meant to get along no matter what. Incompatibility due to different personalities is not excused by dna.
The biggest problem I see here is your son supporting his sister instead of his wife.
Why did he say his wife was bullying his sister?
Very opinionated adults, alcohol, politics and other sensitive subjects are a deadly mixture.

Thanks for clarifying, CrazyH!

I'm so glad this row didn't occur while the children were around. But since DIL ended up crying and is still upset w/ DS, it seems to me this was more than a "little niggle."

I get the idea of spouses supporting each other in public even if they disagree in private. But if DS felt that DIL was seriously bullying his sister, I can see why he may have felt he had to act in the moment. Since you tell us that DS generally doesn't get along w/ DD and yet he still defended her, I imagine he felt very strongly that DIL was in the wrong. IMO, it would have been better to try to change the subject or pull DIL aside to ask her to let the issue go or whatever. But, of course, I wasn't there, so don't really know.

If this was an isolated incident, then, hopefully, then I, too, am sure DS and DIL will "patch things up" and put it behind them. But if DS is in the habit of siding w/ his sister over his wife, then this is probably a larger issue. I just hope it doesn't continue to affect you.

CrazyH this must be so upsetting for you. My daughter and son were close up until my daughters partner came on the scene. My daughter's partner was certainly jealous of their relationship and would stir up trouble or exploit childhood rivalries at any opportunity. I would disagree that spouses should come first. I would speak with them separately to find out what issues they have and try to unravel it. Ask them how they would feel and what they would do if their own children (when they are grown) did not get along. Good luck with it all. If it cannot be sorted for your birthday, tell them you are going to do your own thing because all the upset is giving you a heavy heart. Nothing focuses my two adult children more than mum "starting".
( There are some benefits of being older, wiser and more senior). Although it feels like it, this is a problem in many families. So chin up, lady.

naoftwo - our two are very different and yet so close. They did argue like cats and dogs as teenagers- but they always stayed very close and supported each other through thick and thin. When DD2 got in a relationship with a nasty, bullying, control-freak- he made sure he kept her away from big sister. He knew she could see straight through him. they moved abroad and sisters had practically no contact for years- until DD2 realised she had to get out- after 1 beating too many. DD1 stepped up for her, as we all did - and their are so supportive of each other now, and hopefully forever- even though they don't see each other often, due to distance and work, kids activities at week-ends, etc.

The next year, I got 2 mother's card from them - the same one, on the same day- and I thought they had bought them together as a joke, but no. It says 'Mums are like buttons- they keep everyone together'.

It broke my heart to see my close girls separated by a nasty bully - so I do feel for you. Talking to friends, I know you are not alone to suffer in this way. Nanoftwo's suggestion to speak to them and ask them how they would feel if their own children fell out - is really excellent. Bonne chance.

Jura2 -- so understand where you are coming from. When you have a close and loving family and outside entities come in and are jealous and want to destroy everything you hold precious, it's devastating. Bet the card thing made your heart swell with pride and love.. With time, patience and a little nudging, hopefully will all work out for you CrazyH.

What a horrible end to a lovely occasion.
For some reason, this particular incident, (not the alcohol) seems to have caught you on the raw and resulted in an upset, sleepless night.

Unfortunately some people thrive on conflict and enjoy provoking an argument. When someone is reduced to tears it should stop forthwith, but neither your son nor daughter will let go; they will emerge refreshed and unscathed, and it is their family who pays the price.

You need to tell them how much this incident has upset you, which may give them pause, but as you say they have always argued I doubt very much if it will stop permanently. (My friend's older sibling (77) has just blamed her, viciously, for his not going to university, because their parents were too much occupied with her taking O levels to persuade him not to leave school aged sixteen!)
With regard to your birthday, think carefully about what you want to do; it may be best to see parts of the family separately. That way you enjoy several birthdays, and won't be on tenterhooks all the time.

It sounds like the most serious point of contention is between the two women.....your DD and your DIL. Regardless of how badly your DS and DD got along growing up, DD may still harbor some sisterly jealousy towards the woman in her brother's life.

If SILs have gotten off on the wrong foot so to speak, you may want to encourage them to rewind, draw a truce and try to get along for the sake of the family. That of course requires a lot of maturity on their part as well as staying sober .

Reminding them that they will likely have to see a lot of each other for many years to come, should be a good incentive.