DIL seeking advice

Hi daffi and welcome to GN.

I'm so sorry that your d.i.l. id behaving in this way. What if anything does your don have to say about this?

It's not the same I know but could you have a word with your son about opening a savings account for your GS. The money you would have spent on gifts could go into that instead.

Do you get to see him? I really hope that your son makes sure that this little boy gets to know and spend time with his GP's.

Hi. This is my first time here. My problem is almost the same, But I am the Gran, and she is the DIL, who acts like your MIL Right after the marriage, our DIL was cold and distant. All I could think, was that she pretended to be friendly. And I am so sad and disappointed.

Our Grandson was also born in 2020, and I would've liked to buy him something. But our DIL will not accept anything from us.

Thankyou for the explanation re the photos Lakelover, it is now clear to me what you meant. It does strike me that it is good that your ILs actually chose not to hold him ...having seen some astounding posts on here from posters who felt that they should be allowed to hold, kiss, cuddle grandchildren/nephews/nieces etc etc regardless of any Covid risks! On that particular point your ILs seem to be have been sensible and thoughtful so that is something for you to hold on to.

Thankyou for explaining the various queries raised too. Good luck as you move forward together on this one

It's good that you've come back and given more clarity Lakelover.

It's often difficult to put across our thoughts and feelings clearly especially when it's such an emotive subject. As Nell posted, our own experiences can and does affect the way we interpret things. Sometimes it's hard to be objective when there's been a traumatic and upsetting event in our own lives.

Being estranged from our youngest son and only GC for more than 8 years, despite my best efforts not too, does affect my own objectivity at times, making me 'see' red flags that don't actually exist.

You're not wrong to want to be respected and feel included by people you see regularly, especially your p's.i.l. Those are things that all expect and rightly so.

I hope that the relationship with your p's.i.l. improves and if not, that you and your H will find ways to manage it as best you can.

Last thing I just read about the goal posts. My sister did that with my parents. Everything became a boundary stomp and her expectations of how they acted became way to high and unattainable. It became a situation of they couldn't cal her DD by a nickname or do xyz with my sis getting upset. This is not the case with DH and me. We have never done that with his parents and would never. We just want respect that's all. I am sorry DH is.upset but its healthy to recognize poor treatment and want better. Whether that poor treatment is from your parents, friends, coworkers or complete strangers. Anyway I am out. Thanks for you ladies time and help.

I'll try to answer some of your questions for some clarity. The whole letting them take pictures I guess was a poor choice of words. Because covid rates went up significantly in our area for a while they did not hold our Ds or get close to him for a while. They did choose not to because they like to go out and about, their words not mine. Rates have come back down so they decided they were comfortable with holding him again. We allow our family members to as long as they are symptom free wash their hands and masked. I don't mind pictures because I want to do a baby book for my sons first year and despite what you might think I do want pictures of my son with all of his grandparents. DH sends them pics on a regular basis.

I will be completely honest with you all. I feel like this has been a safe space here to ask for advice. Do I want to see his parents regularly the answer is no. I wouldn't chose to see anyone regularly who treats me this way. Family or not its not acceptable. I am not going to apologize for feeling that way. If they were strangers I would never let people like them have anything to.do with DS. I want to shield him from any poor treatment I think that is natural as a first time mom. Thats what my heart says my rational brains says no they are his grandparents and have a right to see him.

Would I stop my DH and DS from having a relationship with them no I wouldn't and would never. It was DH who suggested distance I am not 100% sure what he means by it. I assumed maybe seeing them a bit less. I didn't ask because DS woke up and we decided to continue the conversation later and still haven't. I wanted advice because I want to fix the situation instead. Yes I did tell my husband I love him so much ill just put up with that. That is probably immature but I feel sometimes it's lose lose and I don't know what to do.

As for DHs moms MIL I don't know. She died while DH was young and he doesn't have many memories of her. I also want to mention why DS and DH haven't gone without me. I am still breastfeeding which does make it tricky. Because of the pandemic DS hasn't gone anywhere but the doctors office that is a decision both of us made. The only visitors weve had are each of our parents. It is tricky to because he works long hours so there isn't a lot of time. We could start doing visits where I leave the house for a bit. I will say DH is a bit resistant at times to see them alone, not sure why but he always wants me included. I don't think I need to be I have encouraged him multiple times in the past pre covid and DH to go have dinner with them or something and getting him to go was like pulling teeth.

Anyway I want to thank everyone who has given me advice. And thank you for being a safe space here so I don't complain about it in the real world. Not sure I like where this thread is heading. I feel a bit like its become DIL is looking to estrange her husband from his family. If that's what you think that's fine I am just not going to spend the time defending myself anymore. I don't feel I am in the wrong for wanting to be respected and included with people we see so frequently. I think I've been more than accommodating and have put my feelings last. I won't apologize for not wanting to go out of my way for them anymore.

Thanks for the clarity Smileless, that it what I meant, but didn't make it clear enough.

I've just seen your excellent post Nell and wanted to pick up on something that you've said. "If the in laws are vile bullies in the face of open and honest communication, then she has every right to create distance and even estrangement".

I agree with you that she has the right to do that for herself but not for her H and their child; apologies if that's not what you meant.

Her H has to make any such decision for himself, to be as certain as he can be that that is what he wants and in order to be able to do so, he needs space to make a careful and considered decision.

If the OP is constantly complaining about his p's behaviour and how that makes her feel, she's not giving him that space.

It's possible if not ideal, for him to continue to have his parents in his life and keep their GC in theirs while his wife remains distance or becomes estranged.

A wise post NellG. And to add as well that many posters are at different points along the 2 scenarios you describe. ....overbearing and difficult Mils and Estrangement from AC ...which will have bearing on their responses

I do think that it is worth considering honestly all aspects of the situation you find yourself in Lakelover and some of the aspects raised by Smileless might help you to consider options and motivations and solutions, without "distancing"

Nothing that you have described so far would suggest "distancing" as an appropriate or helpful course of action for your husband from my perspective. Continuing to work together on the best way forward for all of you seems best to me

I agree with you Lolo the OP hasn't been rude or behaved badly which is to her credit but there's an underlying 'theme' throughout this thread that bothers me.

Suggestions have been made that when her H visits his parents at their home that she doesn't go, but she appears unwilling for him to take their child with them. This would greatly reduce the amount of time she would spend with them, as she'd only see them in her own home.

More than once the OP has commented on the close relationship her H has with his parents and I wonder if her resentment of that relationship is a source of annoyance to her.

What struck me was that despite the last visit going much better, with the OP's H being "super aware and caught it (their rudeness) several times" at the end of her last post she says "He's talked of distancing himself. I don't know what the right answer is I'll just keep supporting him".

Why is her H thinking of distancing himself? Could it be that disregarding the conversation they probably had before his parents arrived, where they discussed their 'strategy', and the inevitable conversation once they'd left about the positive and negative aspects of the visit, this is a constantly referred too issue, and it is that and not just his parents behaviour that is affecting her H?

The OP told her H she loves him more than anything and if he needs her too she'll "just fake it for him". That's a terrible burden to put on the man you love more than anything isn't it? That you're so hurt and upset by the way his parents behave toward you, that because you love him so much, you'll grin and bear it for his sake.

Then there's the reference to letting them "hold DS and let them take pictures with him". I agree with Madgran here, it sounds as if the OP doesn't want her in law's holding their GC and taking pictures; if that's the case then why?

I understand her resentment and frustration because of a very difficult relationship for several years with my own m.i.l. but that had nothing to do with her relationship with our boys, and shouldn't have anything to do with her in law's relationship with their GS.

The last visit appeared to go much better than previous visits and yet there's a sense that this isn't enough, so what's the answer?

The OP can only see her in law's in her own home with her H visiting his parents with his son, thus reducing perhaps by as much as 50% the number of unpleasant and uncomfortable visits for her to be a part of.

If she doesn't want her in law's seeing their GC without her being there, although I really don't understand why, she and her H can continue to work together to make visits as bearable as possible.

Her H can distance himself from his parents, which I seem to remember he did for several weeks before contact resumed, but what effect would/could that have on him if this went on for a protracted period?

If he feels that he must choose, as Nell put so well he will in all probability choose his wife over his parents but she'll "lose a bit of him along the way".

I think it's important to look at these situations with an acknowledgement that our own life experiences are heavily influencing our view and therefore any advice/opinion we might give.

Some of you see overbearing MILS because it's the part of the story you identify with most strongly and feel you can express the wisdom of your experiences most genuinely. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Some of us are coming from a place when we spent years witnessing our DILS undoing our relationships with our sons and GC and have spent years since in daily emotional agony because of estrangement. Few of us did much wrong, we just weren't able to follow the always moving goalposts. I'm sorry but to have wanting a photo with your GC cited as bullying/overbearing behaviour is ridiculous and selfish. Also people lie, DILs lie, mine did. Perhaps OP isn't, I can't know that, neither can anyone who isn't witness to the real situation.

None of us know what is really going on in this situation, we just have the OPs perception. Given that these people brought up the man she fell in love with and married, surely having endowed him with their principles and values, how bad can they be? We haven't been told that he feels he was abused in any way. It would be nice to hear their side, but we can't so as the OP is asking for our thoughts on this I feel that to be fair to her, her husband, her child and her in laws it behooves balance to present a view of what happens when insecurity and dislike spiral into justification of distance and estrangement.

All people have feelings, it just looks to me that the OP has forgotten that and thinks her own are above everyone else's in this scenario. They are merely equal. Perhaps sitting down and openly discussing things instead of this slow erosion might be the solution. If the in laws are vile bullies in the face of open and honest communication, then she has every right to create distance and even estrangement. But right now, it reads to me that she might be asking for approval to break a family without doing the work to improve it. I do not approve.

If my view isn't true of her situation, then it does no harm but at least it will have added balance.

I’ll also add that the generation thing may be playing a part, I felt as I had much of my life dictated by my MIL (my wedding, where we lived, how we raised our sons) that it was my turn to pull rank. Sometimes these outdated ideas need squashing however much it feels a bit unfair!

Lolo81 I agree with you completely, the poster’s experience of her in-laws is not dissimilar to my own with my MIL (however I have to say my FIL was a true gent) . But sometimes these relationships are generational, my MIL’s MIL was not accepting of her and was rude and bossy, which she (my MIL) was then to me and then I to my own Dil. My son making plain his stance on my behaviour instigating a lot of soul searching (and denial for a while) ultimately led to a very strong relationship between us (dil and myself) now.

While the poster’s DH may have pulled up his parents on individual behaviours perhaps he needs to speak plainly and say if the bigger picture of unkindness to my wife does not change you will no longer be welcome in our home.
There doesn’t need to be no contact or distancing but some sort of consequences need to happen to wake up the posters parents.
I’ve had a lifetime of grief from my MIL and I wish I’d been more proactive, she’s in her 90’s so too late for me but not for the poster. Also I’m the proof in the pud that middle aged dogs can be taught new tricks

I’m sorry, but I have to disagree that OP is trying to cause an estrangement here. She hasn’t behaved badly, she hasn’t been rude, she hasn’t been exclusionary. All of the bad behaviour here is coming from one source - her husbands parents! OP has tried changing her approach, and IMO done a whole lot more than most to accommodate, despite being poorly treated.

So OP IMO - keep doing what you’re doing, your DH has been brought up accepting their rudeness as his “normal”, and is now as an adult looking at this through a different lens. If he finds (as any normal adult would) that ignoring his wife in his own home and being exclusionary of her is rude and not nice behaviour, good on him!

Imagine this wasn’t an IL relationship - would anyone else accept being snubbed in their own home repeatedly by the same people and happily invite them back time and again? I think not - OP has given these people every opportunity to be kind and continues to do so despite being hurt every time they show up.

So, keep being kind and taking the high road OP, I’m glad this visit wasn’t as hard for you and that DH is starting to realise that rational adults do not ignore the people that they’re visiting.

let them hold DS and let them take pictures with him

Does them taking pictures trouble you Lakelover? I am not sure from your comment. If it does, then I do think you need to consider why it troubles you. Taking pictures is such a normal part of grand parenting, regardless of any other issues that may be arising.

The trouble with bad behaviour and rudeness, it becomes a habit. They may be so used to this overbearing, nasty behaviour that they may not even notice it to any great extent. Your dh accepts things as he is “non- confrontational” and they get away with it. They are the losers as they are missing out on a close, happy relationship with you. They are bullies and bullies usually back down when confronted with retaliation. Answer back in a calm but firm manner so that you are in control. It is YOUR home they are visiting and this puts you in a prime position of authority. Do not show you are upset in fact aim for an air of disbelief that they are so rude. Don’t ask mumsnetters or they will be advising packing your bags, getting your affairs in order together with passport etc. You and your dh have a good marriage and a lovely son. Ride out the storm but talk quietly and reasonably to your dh about the situation. By the way do your parents ever visit at the same time. Interested in how they act towards you when they are present.

I had/have a difficult relationship with my own MIL who in her 90’s still walks all over me. It’s her way and if she doesn’t get her way there are big upsets and fuss. She is estranged from several members of her own family due to having a vicious mouth at times under the guise of “I call it as I see it”.

I was behaving in much the same way with my son’s wife and my son pulled me up on it. I wish my husband had pulled his mother on her behaviour, I would have enjoyed my dc and my family so much more if she had been asked to be respectful towards me. I don’t think pretending fake nice is a good idea as it will only breed resentment

I would not encourage estrangement or distancing however, but a clearing of the air might be helpful. I’ve seen the toll estrangement took on my MIL and while she is an unpleasant woman towards myself, she is actually a good friend and neighbour to others and it caused and still causes her much pain. By the time her family members estranged from her they were so resentful and at a point that the relationship couldn’t be mended.

Nell's right Lakelover it does look that way.

If spending time with your in law's is so unpleasant then wouldn't it be better for your H to take your son and visit without you?

Not ideal I know but better than a rift being created that may never be healed.

Loving people 'more than anything' means loving them more than we love ourselves.

Bear that in mind before you support a man to distance his family for you.

I'm going to be blunt here, it looks to me that you're engineering an estrangement because you would be happier if your in laws were out of your life. Are you prepared to cause pain and distress to all of the other people who love your husband, and who he loves to sooth yourself and have the life that you want? Do it by all means, but you will have to live with the consequences - including the knowledge that you made him choose. He'll choose you, which is right and proper, but you'll lose a bit of him along the way.

Sorry honey, but someone had to tell you how this looks. I hope you make the right choice. Best wishes.

Managing the situation as you have both just done is preferable IMO to your DH distancing himself from his own parents Lakelover

I agree

Managing the situation as you have both just done is preferable IMO to your DH distancing himself from his own parents Lakelover.

Distancing can sometimes result in estrangement which would be a terrible situation for your H, his parents and your child who would lose two GP's in the process.

Knowing that you "love him more than anything" and that you're prepared to "just fake it for him" will I'm sure have been a great source of comfort.

As annoying, hurtful and upsetting as his p's behaviour is, it's not something you have to endure all day every day, just when they visit you or you visit them.

I do understand as I had an extremely difficult relationship with my m.i.l. for years but would never have wanted or agreed to my DH distancing himself from his parents.

Your p's.i.l. holding and having pictures taken with their GS is part of being a GP, and it was good that this 'normal' behaviour formed part of the visit.

From your latest post, I would suggest that you and your H working together as you've just done is far more productive than him trying to talk about this with his parents, if doing so makes them defensive.

Keep doing what you're doing. The last thing you or your DH want is for him to begin distancing himself from his parents, as the repercussions could only increase, rather than mitigate your stress levels.

Lakelover well done, smiling, nodding, taking the high road!!

Re who he looks like, if they argue about that just shrugging and saying "Ok!" is pretty powerful

To be honest the deeper problem here seems to me to be the relationship between DH and his parents, what he is learning about his family, his relationships, him changing the balance of power as an adult and so on. You are right to support him but be careful about the faking it, it rarely works long term !

Good luck anyway. ?

Thanks for all the responses ladies I really mean that. This is so difficult to navigate and it helps to hear good advice. I did exactly like you guys said and took the high road. I tried not to worry to much and didn't call them out just smiled and nodded. I welcomed them let them hold DS and let them take pictures with him. I asked him about how they were doing and what is going on with them and ignored the rude behavior. You guys were right there is a nice power in not getting upset or engaging and realizing I cannot change who they are.

They did engage in the same rude behavior but this time DH was super aware and caught it several times. They asked me a couple questions every so often and when I answered they got up either talked to each other lf DH like I wasn't there or got up and walked away. They also went on and on About Ds looks like a I predicted. I did say at one point he looks a lot like my brother as a kid and of course they argued with that. I am not upset but DH is. He wanted to have a chat with them. Apparently he's had a few and each time they act like they don't know what he's talking about and become defensive he says.

I don't know its up to him we talked a lot about it and what we want our relationship with them to look like. I told DH I love him more than anything so if he needs me to just fake it for him I will. He has talked about distancing himself. I don't know what the right answer is ill just keep supporting him.

I worry I won't have it in me to assert myself and call out rude behaviour

So don't stress and worry about it! Just accept you haven't the energy to "call it out|". Decide what you will do if there is rude behaviour. My suggestion would be ..if something rude is said just look at the person very directly for maybe 10 seconds, then calmly turn your head away. Say nothing. Breathe deeply to calm yourself. If the rudeness is ignoring you, just sit there with a gentle smile on your face, say nothing, just listen. Decide that your only response will be to anything that impacts negatively on your son.

I worry his mom will press and become argumentative

So don't worry. if she does just look at her, smile calmly, turn away or whatever. But don't respond, don't join in, don't argue.

I hate that my sons looks and personality are the only topic of conversation lately. Can't he just be an individual with his own looks and desires

Just sit there and listen. Smile calmly. Say nothing. He IS an individual with his own looks and personality! Them waffling on with their needy stuff doesn't change that; let them get on with it!

I hate that DH has my family who adores him while I am barely tolerated by his it just seems so unfair

Well isn't that lovely for your DH. Focus on supporting him with his difficult family and on your son, not on what they are not giving you. You can't change them. They can't give you what you want. Accept that. If you don't expect anything then you can't be disappointed when nothing comes!

I also worry I will be so mad at myself for just being a doormat and letting it all go. I just can't keep doing that to myself.

Forgive yourself for feeling like you do, tired of it all! Not responding is not automatically being a doormat|! Calm non response to such behaviour is empowering and powerful...start to use it, plan it in advance, stick to it.

Now if it behaviours that are impacting negatively on your son ...something else is needed and THIS is what you need to focus on in advance with your DH. You already know the kind of things that might happen...*correcting/arguing with me about meaningless things and preaching to me and my husband about what we should be doing better* .... agree a plan of action with him, support him to implement it. The key is behaviours that impact on your son that you as a couple and as parents will not tolerate. That is the message to DH and that is what you need to focus on

Good luck

Lakelover. As those of us who've been on the receiving end of hurtful and thoughtless talk know only to well, the old saying that 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me' just isn't true.

Physical 'wounds' heal but emotional ones in my experience are much harder to recover from. That said, I agree with Nell's reply.

Do try to get and keep this looming visit in perspective and I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic when I say that.

They will be at some point going home so it isn't forever. I can understand you being resentful because of the way they are, but try and put that aside and focus on how much this means to your DH.

You say your H is trying to be 'fair' to his parents because of the amount of time your parents get to spend with their GC which is understandable.

Before we were estranged by our youngest son, his wife would attribute our GS's 'looks', mannerisms and well everything really to her 'side' of the family, so I know how annoying that can be.

What helped me deal with it was to tell myself that clearly our GS had the same shaped hands as our ES and same shaped nose while his eyes and mouth were like his mum's.

I thought at the time and still do, that her insistence to the contrary was rather sad and rather than be annoyed I should feel sorry for her.

Without re reading the entire thread, I seem to remember that you aren't comfortable with the thought of your H taking their GC to their house for visits without you being there.

If that's the case, make the best of their visits to you and put some coping mechanisms in place. Change the subject if you can and if not when it comes to family resemblances be more outspoken about how your son resembles members of your own family.

If it's all getting too much leave the room and leave them to it for a while.

These are your H's parents and your son's GP's. As Nell has said, do it for them and in so doing, you'll be doing it for you too. Being the 'better person' is rarely easy but oh boy it feels good when you can manage it.

Good luck x