Where have all the dads gone?

trisher

Let's face facts there are as many different stories about and reason for someone being a single mother as there are reasons and stories about marriages and families. No situation is typical. There are girls who get pregnant because they want a baby and girls who get pregnant because they think the bloke might stay with her. There are fathers who abandon their children and mothers who chuck out the father. There are fathers who fight for their children and fathers who find it easier to stop seeing them. There are fathers who pay and fathers who don't.
What's the common denominator- children. The CSA was set up supposedly to make sure children were financially cared for, it plainly isn't working. But it's very obvious that a child brought up by one parent is going to be worse off financially than one brought up by two and that because women still earn less than men a child brought up by a mother will be worse off than one brought up by its dad. So is it beyond this country financially to provide adequate financial support to all children from birth to 18? Of course it isn't. But it suits a certain agenda to allot blame and castigate someone, sometimes the mother, sometimes the father. rather than meet what is an obvious need.

Of course there are many different reasons for the preponderance of single mothers, but the main reason is society’s acceptance of it.
No one wants to go back to the bad old days of back street abortions and shame, but it is natural to castigate someone when we find ourselves in this mess of father free children.
Wouldn’t it be better for the parties concerned to take some responsibility for their actions?

Here's an example that I haven't made up.
My daughters dad, who I was engaged to, and with for 6 years paid £5 for the whole of her life.
He wasn't a real pig; he was a young man who realised the system wasn't going to make him pay up. (Mummy and daddy had a say in it too, of course)

So, she lived, she suffered, she died, and he paid £5.

So, all these dads are here, there, and everywhere.

In lots of your own families, no doubt, because for every child born there are TWO parents.

Incidentally, those single mums whose parents regularly help them out with money- I hope they let the dwp know.

Also, incidentally, unless there is a medical reason, single parents are expected to work these days.

They simply won't be given benefits to sit on their bums and do nothing except everything that raising a child entails.

Yesterday the plumber who came to my house was so hungover he broke the sink. Does this prove that plumbers as a group are utterly feckless. I dont really understand the benefits for large families comment. Child benefit stops at two doesnt it?

Thanks for your acknowledgement urmstongran.
So many heartbreaking stories on here. Can the dads who just walk away truly not see the damage they do?
I'm wishing for a Ken Loach type searing look into this.

hollysteers

An example: my own niece has five children with the aim of obtaining healthy benefits. She is on good terms with her partner and they arranged that he does not live with her or marry so it continued. He has a full time job and I am amazed at all the designer baby clothes etc expended.
When I mentioned to my brother in my naivety before
I understood the arrangement, how lovely it was to have a large family, his reply was “Ha ha ha”.
Be assured this is the case for many in my nearest city.
This has nothing to do with abandoned mothers, widows etc for whom I have the utmost sympathy.

I hope the doubters are reading this hollysteers.
I’m sure they think I make things up.

Poor love. Sara54 no wonder your heart goes out to your granddaughter.

I think the refusal to contribute financially is fairly dreadful, but what I find worse is their attitude to their own children.
My daughters older girl seems pretty resilient, and expects nothing.
But in these days of social media, she can see his latest partner posting every day, about what they’ve all been doing, what a wonderful perfect little family they are.
I doubt it will last to be honest, but whilst it does, it’s really rubbing her nose in it.

trisher

Let's face facts there are as many different stories about and reason for someone being a single mother as there are reasons and stories about marriages and families. No situation is typical. There are girls who get pregnant because they want a baby and girls who get pregnant because they think the bloke might stay with her. There are fathers who abandon their children and mothers who chuck out the father. There are fathers who fight for their children and fathers who find it easier to stop seeing them. There are fathers who pay and fathers who don't.
What's the common denominator- children. The CSA was set up supposedly to make sure children were financially cared for, it plainly isn't working. But it's very obvious that a child brought up by one parent is going to be worse off financially than one brought up by two and that because women still earn less than men a child brought up by a mother will be worse off than one brought up by its dad. So is it beyond this country financially to provide adequate financial support to all children from birth to 18? Of course it isn't. But it suits a certain agenda to allot blame and castigate someone, sometimes the mother, sometimes the father. rather than meet what is an obvious need.

Good post.

One thing not mentioned here is that there will be many fathers who do pay but, if they are out of work or on low pay and claiming Universal Credit, CMS will calculate they should pay £7 per week. This will not go far to help raise a child but these men will not have any extra to give.

GagaJo

*Many of these baby daddies are long term boyfriends who visit each weekend and leave cash on the table when they leave, of course this suits the single mum nicely.*

Really? Do you know one of these?

This is the ridiculous sort of urban myth that is created as an excuse to hate the poor.

Oh yes, boyfriends are expected to contribute to “companionship” and living expenses.

PS The CSA is joke if parent does not want to pay it’s easy to wriggle out of it.

You’re right JaneJudge. It’s my opinion that children need two parents wherever possible. Many of the children I taught had absolutely nothing to do with their fathers. Occasionally I had a child who lived with dad and there was no sign of mum.

An example: my own niece has five children with the aim of obtaining healthy benefits. She is on good terms with her partner and they arranged that he does not live with her or marry so it continued. He has a full time job and I am amazed at all the designer baby clothes etc expended.
When I mentioned to my brother in my naivety before
I understood the arrangement, how lovely it was to have a large family, his reply was “Ha ha ha”.
Be assured this is the case for many in my nearest city.
This has nothing to do with abandoned mothers, widows etc for whom I have the utmost sympathy.

It isn't just about money. Fathers who are emotionally unavailable to their children are just as damaging too.

Totally agree with you there Nannee49. I think my fury at these irresponsible feckless dads just spilled over. I sincerely apologise for homing in on the single mums but it just makes me SO furious how our governments can’t get a grip of the fathers (round the throat and up against a wall would be a good start) and force them to pay up.

Apologies- some x posts as I was typing

I know of a man, 3 children to 3 different women and has NEVER paid anything to help with the children's upkeep. I also know of a lady who received I think £30 when her child was born, then dad was never seen again. However, to a certain extent it hacks me off because taxpayers ( unless mum works and sometimes cannot) are paying for the children when the dads should be, but dad is too busy swanning off romancing his next victim. Sadly the cycle goes on. I feel sorry for all the babies with no dads, and all the mums left bringing up baby on their own.

I do wonder when the pendulum swung so far the other way? No one wants the draconian measures back of sinful girls being forced to give their babies up for adoption (but there were no handouts and family shame in the community was a powerful driving force in the 50’s). Ireland’s catholic laundry scandal haunts folk to this day.

But surely we are too soft, too kind, too non-judgemental these days? Okay girlie you want a baby. But how are you going to provide for it? Have you even thought about it? No? Well don’t worry, us taxpayers can be dad - no problemo!

The system is clunky and not working. It needs fixing and however it’s done, more robust arrangements put in place.

Harder times are coming. That should focus minds. Sadly, unless we are rich, none of us can just have what we want in life.

Urmstongran
Just to say, these men are not ‘Randy lads’
Both now in their late forties, but with absolutely no sense of responsibility.

Good thread for discussion Lizbethann.

I totally agree that there are a lot of feckless fathers out there but I hate the censure that falls upon women as somehow the architects of their own downfall if they are left struggling single mums.

I don't have any figures to hand - perhaps urmstongran could supply some - of the percentage of mums who use popping out babies as a lifestyle choice against others who are single mums due to circumstance but I think the circumstance mums are by far in the majority.

Either way, this thread was started to ask where are all the DADS but straightaway the discussion has turned, as always, to the MUMS.

Single mums don't need any more censure or criticism or Les Dawson style sniffing and bosom lifting about their plight, they have enough to put up with taking care of the kids they love, putting food on the table and struggling not only financially but with the heartbreak of no normal family life, of being abandoned by some prick seizing the next laaady opportunity and moving on.

What they do need is a robust, fit for purpose CSA - we agree on that urmstongran - to ensure that walkaway fathers completely fulfil their financial responsibilties.

A shift in perception, so that censure falls on the all louche, useless dads whistling off to their next families, would be nice but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

There are plenty of single parent families where the dad(s) are no where in sight. And the women live on benefits. I know this because I used to work in what is known as a deprived area when I was teaching. When I worked in Early Years we visited every child at home before they started school or nursery. The mothers told me about absent dads, ‘He lives with his mum’ or ‘They’ve got different dads’ or ‘She has nothing to do with her dad.’ It’s out there and happening and has been happening for years.
Incidentally I think the CSA isn’t fit for purpose. You only need to read this thread to see that that’s true.

My daughter did eventually go down the CSA route, but was told that as he had three other children he wouldn’t reasonably be able to afford it.
Child 1 wants and expects nothing from him. We’ve told her it’s his loss, she’s a lovely bright, loveable girl, and he’s missed all of her growing up.

Let's face facts there are as many different stories about and reason for someone being a single mother as there are reasons and stories about marriages and families. No situation is typical. There are girls who get pregnant because they want a baby and girls who get pregnant because they think the bloke might stay with her. There are fathers who abandon their children and mothers who chuck out the father. There are fathers who fight for their children and fathers who find it easier to stop seeing them. There are fathers who pay and fathers who don't.
What's the common denominator- children. The CSA was set up supposedly to make sure children were financially cared for, it plainly isn't working. But it's very obvious that a child brought up by one parent is going to be worse off financially than one brought up by two and that because women still earn less than men a child brought up by a mother will be worse off than one brought up by its dad. So is it beyond this country financially to provide adequate financial support to all children from birth to 18? Of course it isn't. But it suits a certain agenda to allot blame and castigate someone, sometimes the mother, sometimes the father. rather than meet what is an obvious need.

Matt Hancock walked out on his own family

Yes I get what you’re saying GagaJo about say Matt Hancock giving his mates financial advantages during the pandemic.

But this thread isn’t about that issue. More robust posters would call that out as ‘whataboutery’.

Hang on, 'sainted single mums' is your phrase. Not mine. But poor single women love their children just as much as middle class married women, I'm sure

I’m sure they do GagaJo but love isn’t the issue here.
It’s money & where to get it from to help these single mums to provide for their children. Some children have such a hard sad life because in part, of the choices of their own parents.

Well, the dads anyway - deciding to leg it and there seem to be no disadvantages to choosing to do so.