Flying monkey - anyone aware of the term?

Me too. Being able to ‘open up’ has helped me, so my sincere thanks for starting this thread Golddustwoman.

I really hope this thread doesn't fall off the end of the page, never to be seen again as personally I'm getting a lot of comfort from just hearing how others have fared in this frightening situation.

Not intent, but occasion- coffee, here I come

There was an intent to put me in the position of FM by the mother of a friend of mine

I understood the mother's position but told very clearly I was her daughter's friend, could do nothing to change the situation or my friend's mind.

I was always there to support her daughter no matter what

I wouldn't talk to my friend to make her change her mind.
I valued our friendship too much to put it in jeopardy

Luckily, the mother reacted well and did not put pressure on me.

Decades later, my friend and mother told me they were thankful I declined to intervene on the mother's behalf.

Doodledog, your comments and insight on this subject are really excellent. I discovered Elinor Greenburg too and have found her comments illuminating and wise. She too had a mother with NPD and writes movingly about the experience. There is also a book " Walking on Eggshells", I cannot remember who by but is on the internet and available on Amazon. It seems to me that in order to defend ourselves against these hidden assassins we must learn everything we can about NPD so that we can firstly identify them and secondly be armed with a defence. It's not easy to always disengage from them because they are often people who we love and can't imagine never seeing them again. There are coping mechanisms, easier if the person is a work colleague, a boss, or a friend but much more difficult when they are a family member with whom there is regular contact. It's achievable but not without constant vigilance and mental strength.

Very interesting informative discussion here. It led me to realise I’d been used as a flying monkey in a difficult work situation. It didn’t go well for me but I never let myself be manipulated in that way again
Good to see you German shepherd’s mum. Sorry to hear you’ve been having tough times
You’ve been missed

Doodledog you're so right - having two NPD relationships in a row (with 8 years between) the two Narcissists worked in exactly the same order. Also like you, I don't understand how they do it. I find Quora very helpful and also watching Sam Vaknin on f/b is an eyeopener.

I'm sorry to hear that people on here have fallen foul of this treatment. It is devastating when it happens, as it's not an obvious enemy doing it - they really make you feel that you are close to them in whatever way, until they don't.

In a classic pattern, after the love bombing, the next stage is devaluation, when they realise that you are not perfect (as nobody is). You might not even know what you've done, but as they don't have object constancy (the ability to both care about and be irritated by someone at the same time) they can be really vicious and it is bewildering. Things go back and forth between love bombing and devaluation, so you don't know where you are, and finally they find someone else to fill the role you had (trusted colleague, favourite child, close friend, lover, whatever) and you are discarded. By this time, they have briefed the flying monkeys who believe them, just as you believed them at the start. A favourite technique is to say that you are unbalanced in some way, so that when they leave it is your fault, and anything you say will be seen through the lens of you being unreliable.

I don't fully understand why all the people with NPD behave in the same way, but they do. There is a lot of information about it on Quora, and many victims all describe the same patterns of behaviour. Elinor Greenberg is a psychologist on there who writes very well. (As ever, there is a lot of nonsense on there, though, so you have to be selective.) She has written book too, if you prefer not to sift through a lot of nonsense.

The flying monkeys my mother used are mainly family members, they still believe everything my mother told them.
I have been shunned by people I was once close to, the lies must have been very damming as they can barely look at me.

I even had someone say to me they were sorry I had been estranged from my mother at the time her of her death, I corrected them only to be told well, “your mother was never allowed in your house despite you moving back 8 years ago”
My mother came most Sundays for lunch, stayed when she was poorly once, had every Christmas, Easter and lots of family get togethers in our home.

So she is dead but her legacy lives on.

I read this thread in fear. Having just finished a five year 'relationship' with a NPD and as it is my home, I had to get him out, which he didn't want to do, so police and social services were involved.

This was my second NPD relationship - I ignored the red lights, hoped I was wrong, after all he was so loving to me. Both relationships followed a distinct pattern described here and elsewhere - Love bombing, ghosting, gas lighting with the odd sprinkling of aggression, abuse and character assassination thrown in for good measure. My computer was hacked into, all conversations were recorded and photographed on his phone 'for future reference'. My friends were alienated by him. It was all my fault, how could anyone, let alone me, the woman 'he loved most' discard him? poor, poor him.

I now await the flying monkey treatment. He's moved round the corner, with 'a mate', it's a small town, everyone seems to know and like him, 'what a lovely bloke he is, weren't I lucky'. No one really knows him, not even himself, he's a chameleon.

It's too easy if you're lonely, yearning companionship, maybe even love, to get reeled in by these insidious people (there are women NP's too, but it's rarer). Fortunately we're now more aware of the traits of the charlatans, so if you feel somewhere inside when meeting someone 'that's too good to be true', listen to that inner voice, because he probably is, he doesn't know the meaning of the word 'truth' please, just run away.

Is "loading the bullets for someone else to fire"another term?
It is one I have been familiar with in a couple of situations,and the term was used then.

Oh yes Mother had them everywhere.

I dont agree FMs are also victims

In my experience, they were noisy people who refused to listen to me and respect my request to drop it.
My relationship with them was just fine till they decided to pick a side and convince me I was wrong

They claimed to want to help and mend the relationship and when they realized they were not going to succeed in their endeavors, became agitated and verbally abusive too

They earned their own co too

You only have to look at our soon to be departed PM to see Narcissism in full flow. The superficial charm, the inability to look you in the eye without smirking, the lies, the obfuscation, the cowardice when confronted. He is a psychologists dream!!

Thank you Doodledog for explaining this so well, especially your second paragraph.
It has been very helpful to now understand these traits I see in others around me and the the way it might have developed.

Thanks Doodledog. You’re so right and it’s incredibly painful.

Golddustwoman

Doodledog thats interesting, I agree, people tend to believe the story and will naturally want to help. Would you say that people who use flying monkeys are often good at persuading people? Thats what I have found. Some people are better at persuading than others and I dont know why and how they learn this art.

I think there's an element of that yes. But it's more complex than that. They are very manipulative, and will tell the first parts of the tale to everyone, and up the ante when they see who sympathises, so it's a bit of an elimination round until they have their victim(s). Meanwhile, they are 'love bombing', which may be sexual, but can also be close friendship, or 'mum is your best friend', or in work situations can be persuading you to help them because 'you are the only one I can trust', or any one of a million other things. They are experts at knowing which buttons to press though, and tailor their tactics to the personality of their victim.

It goes way beyond persuasion. That can be learnt, but I think that NPD behaviour is innate, or absorbed at a very young age. Psychologists (I am not one) believe that narcissists are formed by either distant or over-protective parents, and their brains are subtly altered by the way they are treated so that they never learn empathy or how to be annoyed with someone but recognise that they also love them - they are black and white. They are manipulative and passive aggressive, and specialise in wrong-footing their victims, tricking them into saying things, or denying events that definitely happened - basically making them wrong whatever they do. The really scary thing is that they all seem to do the same things, in their different ways - it's uncanny.

Being a victim of one of these people is very damaging, and can make you do things you previously thought were out of character. I hope I never meet another, or that if I do I will spot the red flags and run for the hills.

And hello, GSM!! Good to see you back.

I'm on the receiving end. My DH's side of the family all hate me and used to harass us because of things my mil used to tell them. They never heard my side of things and never wanted to. Never asked. They pretty much ignore our existence now.

Smudgie

We havn't mentioned the pathological lying either. If they are good at it you will begin to doubt your own sanity as their version of a distressing event is so different to what actually was said. Whatever you do, don't point the discrepancy out to them as you will just raise your blood pressure even higher when the narcissistic rage begins. !!

Gosh yes, pointing out their own bad behaviour only gets you a lot of gaslighting and a grudge that they never forget.

They never let a potential victim go and will try to love bomb, then hound and pound you back into being their emotional punchbag

Yes, and very occasionally used someone as one.

I've found in my line of work, management have only a few people they're influenced by. Twice, I've known something was going on at work, and have known it'd be discounted if I reported it. So I've used one of the in crowd as a flying monkey to pass the message on. Both times, successfully.

We havn't mentioned the pathological lying either. If they are good at it you will begin to doubt your own sanity as their version of a distressing event is so different to what actually was said. Whatever you do, don't point the discrepancy out to them as you will just raise your blood pressure even higher when the narcissistic rage begins. !!

BlueBelle just read the thread

Not heard it but heard of ‘not caring a flying fxxx’ or fig if preferred but where tha comes from no idea and can I be bothered to look it up ???

The damage a flyimg monkey can do is actually huge. Especially if they do manage to send you back to an abuser because the flying monkey was someone you previously trusted.

I've never seen (abuser) act that way

I don't think (abuser) would ever say/do that

Are you sure you remember that right?

(Abuser) tells a very different story

That's just your perception, no one else would be upset by that

There are two sides to every story

(Abuser) loves you they wouldn't hurt you on purpose

You will regret this one day

One day (abuser) will be gone and then how will you feel

Etc etc etc

oh yes that's a well-known one too, about the organ grinder, though less heard nowadays.
but its usage is in different milieu than the OP.
strange that monkeys seem to figure so often.