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(19 Posts)
AnneWilson Mon 20-Feb-23 20:03:31

My daughter had a stillborn baby today 13 years ago. I was there when he was born, her partner at the time was no help at all. Moving forward my daughter has another son by a different man. She doesn’t speak to me anymore but when she did I wasn’t allowed to speak about the loss of my grandson, her child. I am the only person who visits the grave and it’s been this way for years. I would love to put a headstone on his grave but I can’t because she has the deeds to it. Why would someone forbid me talking about my grandson and not visit his grave. I don’t understand? Thank you xxc

GrammyGrammy Mon 20-Feb-23 20:14:47

There are several layers in your post Anne and first I'm so sorry that your baby grandson died. You are the grandmother of that baby who died and you always will be. Someone did not forbid you talking about your grandson, your daughter, his mother did. She lost her child, her son. if she copes by not talking about it that is her choice. You must find a listening ear elsewhere...Cruise bereavement care used to be the some googling for support systems. Might I suggest that you make a stillbirth certificate with his name and your name and that you are his grandmother. Something tangible that this relationship is real. As for the second grandchild- do you have a relationship with him or are you made invisible in your own existence to him too? If the latter- get a copy of his birth certificate and frame it- you ARE his grandmother. As for your precious daughter- hers is a loss too. A great loss too. Perhaps seek weekly counselling to see if you can work through things with a view to feeling peaceful and hopefully soon reaching out to her and reconnecting.

JaneJudge Mon 20-Feb-23 20:16:44

why doesn't she talk to you? sad flowers

M0nica Mon 20-Feb-23 20:37:59

Does your daughter not speak to you because you kept referring to the child that died, even though she asked you not to?

People grieve in many different ways. For your daughter it is by not talking about what happened. As for grave visiting, not grave visiting doesn't mean that that child does not still have a place in your daughter's heart.

It seems to me that yu have got 'stuck' in an early stage of grief and you need to learn to understand your daughter's reactions and your own.

You could probably benefit from a talking to a bereavement councillor about this issue.

Hithere Mon 20-Feb-23 21:12:51

She wouldn't like talking about her sob because it might hurt her
Why did you stop talking?

Palmtree Mon 20-Feb-23 21:27:50

Sendng my sympathy to you on this sad day.
I agree, bereavement councillors can be excellent in helping you work through your grief and also can help you understand how others can grieve in a completely different way. I think the decision about a stone for the grave should be your daughters, but maybe you could have a spot elsewhere, such as a bench in your garden or an ornament or special plant in your home where you could sit and remember and grieve. Maybe your daughter wants to concentrate on her son who is alive and I hope you can try to understand her feelings too, with the help of a councillor. Im sure your daughter hasn't forgotten her stillborn son, she just copes with the terrible loss differently.

paddyann54 Mon 20-Feb-23 21:37:30

What would you like her to talk about ? Serious question her baby was stillborn ,he didn't open his eys so she didn't see what colour they were ,he didn't cry or smile .She probably didn't hold him and she may not even have a birth certificate as not all still births do .
Its like picking at a sore until it bleeds .I know ,I've been there .I never spoke about the babies who didn't survive birth ,I dont have graves .It doesn't mean the pain of loss is any less its just a coping strategy.
.We all have different ways to grieve ,please give your daughter the respect of dealing with the death of her child her way .
I mean no disrespect OP ,but you wont be hurting in the way she is, Please accept her way of coping ,plant a tree in his memory and put a plaque on it if you need somewhere to go but theres no need to involve her if she finds it distressing.

AnneWilson Tue 21-Feb-23 13:17:22

I am not in the early stages or in stuck grief and I have had counselling. Why my daughter stopped speaking to me is because every time I saw her she wanted money from me. Eventually I said no she then refused to talk to me again. I only spoke occasionally about the grandson I had lost

paddyann54 Tue 21-Feb-23 13:32:42

Thats not how your original post read Anne

I had multiple losses,I never told anyone I was pregnant until I thought they would guess and if they lived at a distance they didn't know at all.I had my own and my husbands grief to deal with .After the loss of a baby at 4 days I discovered everybody and their granny felt compelled to tell me about their greif...for a baby no one had seen .I decided I didn't want to manage everyone elses grief so even my mother didn't know when I was in labour ....
Your daughter should be allowed/entitled to manage her loss her way .Its not your place tp put up a headstone or have a conversation about her lost baby.
Sorry if you think this is harsh ,but it makes me angry that people think they should have a say in things when really dont .

Shelflife Tue 21-Feb-23 13:35:06

I understand your distress and yes he was your GS but he was first and foremost your daughters son and she is dealing with her loss in her way. Not visiting a grave is not a sign of not loving or caring it is a way of coping with grief. ( I do not visit graves ! ) and that is my choice. Please seek counselling to help you through your feelings. Palm Tree is wise to suggest you arrange for a memorial in your own garden , somewhere just for you and where you can be quiet and think of your GS. I wish you well and sincerely hope you can come to some understanding of what has happened. This is a very distressing time you and I hope you are ok. 💐

M0nica Tue 21-Feb-23 13:39:03

It looks to me AnneWilson as if you may always have had a rather fraught relationship with your daughter.

As paddyanne says your most recent post throws a new light on your situation. In mourning your grandson, are you also mourning your relationship with your daughter?

GrammyGrammy Tue 21-Feb-23 13:39:06

Paddyann, this was the child of her
child who died. And she was in the room when he died. Her grandson died/ She is not a stranger or passer-by. This is flesh of her flesh and blood of her blood. Of course the mother will be self- absorbed in her own grief but this grandmothers grief is just as real and just as valid. It is sick narcissism to imagine a whole family is not affected by the death of one of them.

Norah Tue 21-Feb-23 13:45:33

AnneWilson flowers

I've had 4 miscarriages, very difficult times.

It's been over 50 years since the first, we still grieve. No graves to visit, just sad memories. We've had 2 precious daughters since.

No advice, apart from everyone grieves in their own way and time.

VioletSky Tue 21-Feb-23 16:09:28

I'm sorry for your loss

I'm also sorry to read your relationship with your daughter has broken down too.

I think you should let go of headstones and things like that and perhaps create a memorial elsewhere you can visit

There is only a beginning to counselling, there is no end if you still need it

downtoearth Tue 21-Feb-23 16:53:40

My first daughter died at 7weeks,a traumatic time she was severely brain injured.

My second daughter died to suicide aged 23.

Neither time could I bear my mums grief and pain as well as my own.
I couldnt take that burden of responsibilty for someone elses feelings.

fancythat Tue 21-Feb-23 17:10:31

Why would someone forbid me talking about my grandson and not visit his grave. I don’t understand? Thank you xxc

I think these are your real questions.

I suspect here as elsewhere, including counselling have said that people grieve in different ways.

Do you believe people grive in different ways, AnneWilson?

VioletSky Tue 21-Feb-23 17:46:36

If it helps to understand, graves mean nothing to me.

I often visit a grave with a close friend because it matters to her and I help her tend it but there is no one there for me.

My grief is in my memories and in the moments in life that make me think of them. That usually turns to smiles when I remember a silly story or a time we laughed.

Your daughter didn't have that. Maybe for her it looks more like this: Her grief is in her body, hers is the memories of kicks and movements. Hers is in the things that she bought that were never used or worn. Hers was in the growing of a new life and her fear for it.

Hers is undoubtedly very different than yours and I think you need to try and understand. It could be that that grave, becoming an expression of your grief makes it harder for her to have hers validated and respected because it is different.

Which is why a memorial for you might help

Shelflife Tue 21-Feb-23 20:43:21

Violet sky , I fully understand . Graves mean nothing to me either .I certainly would not want my family weeping over my grave and feeling they have to tend and visit it - that won't happen. I recognize for some people it is a comfort to visit the grave of a loved one and I respect that but it's not for me!! I hope Anne Wilson can find some way to come to terms with what happened 13 years ago and that she can repair her relationship with her daughter.

M0nica Wed 22-Feb-23 08:01:26

As understand no one is stopping the OP talking about her grandson. It is just the boy's mother has asked her mother not to talk to her about him.

This strikes me as a perfectly understandable request. It may be that as this child was the offspring of a relationship that failed, the mother just wants to put this whole episode behind her and pretend it never happened. She cannot do this while her mother has made herself a walking talking memorial to him. Hence the estrangement.