Grandfathers Are Important Too

Sometimes it just isn't possible NotSpaghetti. There needs to be a willingness to communicate and when your EAC refuses to do so, there's nothing you can do.

The loss is as you say "the most awful imaginable". I was knocked back by the over whelming love I had for our first GC the instant I saw him, because he was our adored son's son.

We loved him because he's our son's son. There's a love there too for his brother even though we've never met him for the same reason.

We love our ES. There's a piece of my heart that belongs only to him and can never belong to anyone else.

You're not talking rubbish but of course GP's feel they're missing out on their GC because they are. I think it's sad if GP's are grateful if they're allowed to see their GC because to me, being a GP to your AC's children is the most natural thing in the world.

Some do see them, even if their AC doesn't want to his/her parents.

FWIW I think you did the right thing MercuryQueen. Your D knew she was free to make contact and you were quite right to ask her not to pass on any information about you and her siblings.

Your relief at her decision is understandable and you both know that she was able to reach that decision with your understanding, which is how it should be.

Maybe a bit off thrack here but...

Why aren't more grandparents concerned primarily about mending the relationship with their own now adult children?

I would find this loss to be the most awful imaginable. I love our grandchildren dearly but I love them because they are my children's children.

My first and deepest love is for my children.
Maybe I'm odd.

I'm not singling anyone out but phrases like being "grateful to the parents if allowed see grandchildren" and "feeling as though I'm missing out on my grandchildren" etc make me wonder what others feel about this.

I confess I'm nor estranged from anyone so I accept I'm maybe talking rubbish here.
Thanks.

Cherrytree59

What about the grandfather writing a heartfelt letter to his son and daughter in law, apologisng for any past comments or behaviour and asking if they would consider allowing him to make appends, saying he fully respects them as the baby parents and will adhere to their all wishes and any conditions

He would be grateful to the parents, if could be allowed see his grandchild and would absolutely respect the parent wishes as to when and where.

That's only my take on the matter.

I think this would be the right thing to do. I am sure the son would want his child to have a relationship with the grandfather if he showed genuine contrition and modified his behavior accordingly. A little bit of humility and a genuine apology may go a long way.

Not your battle to fight.

DiamondLily

Yes, teenagers often sort it out for themselves, even if the parents don't know.

I hope OPs family sort it out between them - for everyone's sake.

It’s interesting. My eldest dd and I had a discussion about my parents who I’ve been NC with for over a decade now. She’s aware of the issues as to why, as we always had age appropriate discussions whenever she asked. I’m of the mindset that if kids ask, they deserve an honest, albeit age appropriate answer. Admittedly, I withheld some of the worst, simply because I didn’t want her hurt (empathetic kid, she’d hurt for me). We had a frank talk when she was nearing 18 and asked how I’d feel if she contacted my mother. Out of all our kids, she’s the only one that has even vague memories of her. I told her that was her decision, but I asked that she not give any information about myself or her siblings, and absolutely no contact information for any of us. I also told her that there was no fixing it. That if she had any fantasy about reuniting us, she needed to realize that wasn’t an option.

She decided not to. I was admittedly relieved, because I honestly can’t imagine any contact with my mother being healthy or safe, and didn’t want my dd going through that, but also knew that I needed to step back and let her make her own decisions.

Hithere

Luckily, long gone are the day where grandparents are revered as the paragon of knowledge and no matter what they do, family defers to them

You will see many still cling to it, however delusional it seems. Times are changing. I am happy to see many younger people valuing love and respect over lineage. Many cycles of toxicity are being broken because lots of parents are deciding they want to show their children healthier relationships. I salute this young mum for recognizing that the mistreatment of herself and her husband was a red line. Hopefully the grans will take ownership of their behavior and modify it appropriately. Healthy, respectful relationships a key for young children.

What about the grandfather writing a heartfelt letter to his son and daughter in law, apologisng for any past comments or behaviour and asking if they would consider allowing him to make appends, saying he fully respects them as the baby parents and will adhere to their all wishes and any conditions

He would be grateful to the parents, if could be allowed see his grandchild and would absolutely respect the parent wishes as to when and where.

That's only my take on the matter.

I hope for the child’s sake that they are protected from witnessing any disrespectful behavior toward their parents, regardless of who the offender is. I trust that the parents are making the right decisions…because they know what’s best for their child. I hope that the grandparents learn that the road to a relationship with a child is through the parents. And if not, oh well. They can cling to the romanticized idea that one day the grandchild will seek them out and turn on their parents. A fantasy most with that sort of wishful thinking simply won’t live to see.

Yes, teenagers often sort it out for themselves, even if the parents don't know.

I hope OPs family sort it out between them - for everyone's sake.

"Children have their own way of working things out ..." Yes biglouis I think you're right.

Did your parents ever know, either because they found out you were seeing your GM or because you told them?

Some friends of ours have a relative who sees her GD, and has done for years but her D knows nothing about it. She was 17 or 18 when she first made contact despite having no memory of her, beginning with 'phone calls and texts before finally meeting up, which they now do on a regular basis.

Luckily, long gone are the day where grandparents are revered as the paragon of knowledge and no matter what they do, family defers to them

biglouis

One day the child will be old enough to choose which of his relatives he wishes to see. As a young child I saw little of my grandmother by my parents wishes but I did still form a bond with her. As I grew ollder (in secondary school) I used to sneak off to see her without telling my parents. I was playing with X or at sports practice (I never went to sorts practice in my life). It was a game and I grew into quite an accomplished liar.

Children have their own way of working things out and the DIL is simply storing up problems for herself in the future.

Doubtful. My children didn’t grow up with my husband’s toxic mother in their lives. They don’t miss her and skipped several opportunities to visit whenever we brought the family back to the UK. I trust that the loudmouth grandfather, who was disrespectful to the child’s mother and apparently father, will been seen by the grandchild for who he is. Children have a tendency to be repulsed by people who don't treat their parents well. As I said, I trust the parents know better than the entitled grandparents and strangers on the internet.

DiamondLily

Yes, they can.

But some parents of young children can also be pretty toxic, and not always do what's right by their children.

Of course, all of the adults involved should work towards being loving and supportive to each other - that is the best outcome.,

And there are no indications outside of the meddling grandmother to suggest these parents are toxic. The fact that she thinks she has a right to tell these parents who they should allow around their child proves that her own lack of boundaries is more than enough to feel safe that these parents know better what’s best for their child. Entitled grandparents aren’t an authority on other people’s children.

The best possible outcome is whatever these two parents decide it is…because they know what’s best for their child.

Stay out of it. If you choose to get involved, I don't see any way in which it can be anything other than a negative and potentially painful experience for all concerned.

One day the child will be old enough to choose which of his relatives he wishes to see. As a young child I saw little of my grandmother by my parents wishes but I did still form a bond with her. As I grew ollder (in secondary school) I used to sneak off to see her without telling my parents. I was playing with X or at sports practice (I never went to sorts practice in my life). It was a game and I grew into quite an accomplished liar.

Children have their own way of working things out and the DIL is simply storing up problems for herself in the future.

Yes, they can.

But some parents of young children can also be pretty toxic, and not always do what's right by their children.

Of course, all of the adults involved should work towards being loving and supportive to each other - that is the best outcome.,

Depends on the grandparents. Some grandparents can also be pretty toxic. I don’t think there is value in any grandparent relationship where the actual parents are disrespected by the grandparent. Children need safe, respectful, loving examples. The OP alone doesn’t give the impression that the FIL is good example of those things. It’s his job to work on that. Other family member’s are not responsible for accommodating him there. Furthermore, the parents would be doing the child a disservice by showing that it’s okay to carry on relationships with disrespectful people. Character matters more than blood relation. Not every family member is fine to raise your child around. Frankly, I find it absurd that all these strangers and the OP think they know what’s best for this child more than the child’s own parents.

It doesn't, but if families work together despite any arguments the adults might have, it can work out best for children.

Grandparents can enrich a child's life, in so many ways.

Always best to try.🙂

Literally never said divorce stops people from being either of those things. And neither of those titles gives the OP or her ex any say in who this child gets to see. Being grandparents doesn’t make you an authority on anyone’s children or the relationships they should have.

Furthermore, being divorced from someone means there were clearly issues that necessitated a split. You don’t get to tell someone else who their child has a relationship with when you yourself couldn’t sustain your own with that individual. The DIL doesn’t have to put up with someone who disrespects her, especially when her only connection to that person her husband whom she views as being mistreated by that same individual. The grandchild has no relationships with anyone that don’t go through the parents. Looks like the OP and her ex would do well to understand that fact.

People who think they are owed relationships from adult offspring and their children after a lifetime of mistreatment are delusional. Looks like the wife is not willing to accept FIL treating her husband bad, unlike his own mother. Good for the young couple. They are doing the right thing.

And frankly, the outcome of the OP’s marriage puts her decidedly outside of the realm of appropriate parties to address a relationship with this piece of work ex of hers

Bring divorced does not stop you both being parents and grandparents.

You will always be those things.🙄

The daughter in law is really none of OP’s business. The value OP or the grandfather have is entirely dependent on the values of the parents. Some people value quality individual’s, regardless of blood relation. This FIL and the OP sound like obnoxious boundary stompers. The suggestion that the relation alone is vital to children implies that children who grow up without grandparents have lived deficient lives. That is foolishness. Don’t insult the millions of people who grow up just fine without grandparents.

If the father in law cannot control himself to be civil to the child’s mother, she has every right to make decisions for her child. Her husband can speak to her if he has a problem. But since it’s no one’s business, I assume that would stay between him and his wife. It’s not your place to lecture him about his wife. And frankly, the outcome of the OP’s marriage puts her decidedly outside of the realm of appropriate parties to address a relationship with this piece of work ex of hers.

The comments suggesting she is controlling because she is filtering who her child should be around are incredibly ignorant. None of you know this young woman from a hole in the wall. The son is in therapy. I can imagine being raised by the FIL being a big reason. He sounds like a bully who met his match in the DIL. Good for her. May she continue to put him in his place as her husband learns to stand up to him.

NotSpaghetti

And, MercuryQueen it may be entirely his relationship with his father that he's trying to understand. His wife may simply be trying to protect him.

Agreed. No way to know, just have to wait and see.

And, MercuryQueen it may be entirely his relationship with his father that he's trying to understand. His wife may simply be trying to protect him.

**Of course.

Son's problem, if it is indeed a problem, to him, he can solve **

And that’s the thing: according to the OP, the son is seeking therapy. I suspect evaluating his wife’s concerns is a big part of it. So often, what we consider to be ‘normal’ we need to reassess when someone else holds up a mirror.

He may decide that no, his wife is overreacting and then navigate what comes next. Or he may decide that there IS a problem in his relationship with his father that needs to be addressed and repaired before anything else can happen.

All the OP (and her ex husband) can do is wait.

It would still be helpful to know what was happening that caused the arguments with the DIL and ex, though. Some things are deal breakers, some aren’t.

Smileless2012

Or the OP's son as the other parent of the child, who has just as much right to control who his child sees as the child's mother, could facilitate his father in seeing the child.

The child's mother doesn't have to see her f.i.l. or have any contact with him. She could also insist that the child is never left alone with her f.i.l. and her husband, the child's father, is always present.

Of course.

Son's problem, if it is indeed a problem, to him, he can solve it.