Sister Wives - could you?

I've skipped a lot, and series 12-17 don't seem to be available, so I am on the last one.

Kody and Robyn are living in a mansion with what looks to be expensive pictures on the walls (they are pixellated, which suggests that they must be worth stealing). The other wives have gone their separate ways, and Christine and Janelle seem to be merging their families for the sake of the children. It's all gone horribly wrong.

I still don't think that polygamy should be illegal, but I do think that the 'marriages' should have some sort of protection, as all the wives except Robyn, whose marriage does have legal status thanks to Meri have been disadvantaged financially. Maybe that side of things could be done legally rather than legislatively, but I really felt for Janelle when she said that at 52 she had nothing, despite having paid rent and mortgages for years, whilst Robyn has that huge house and hasn't paid for anything.

The breakdown is irreparable now, and I feel for the children - 18 or so of them. They had siblings, but now a lot of them don't talk, and none of it is their fault.

It's a shame that a family who set out to show that 'plural marriage' could work is now showing all the reasons why theirs didn't, and they've had a huge amount of air time, so a lot of people will take the breakup as evidence that polygamy is intrinsically bad. I don't think it is, necessarily (although it's not for me) but the fact that it is illegal is problematic.

I felt that it worked reasonably well when the children were small, as they had several 'moms' who looked after them, ready made playmates and so on. The women didn't see much of their husband, but that's true of a lot of monogamous couples at that life stage too. As the children grew up and that stage of life passed, though, the ties that bound them loosened, and that would probably happen even without a self-obsessed husband like Kody. Also, the older wives knew what Kody had done or not done with their children, and seeing him behaving differently with the young wife and her children is bound to cause resentment. It seems certain that he fell in love with Robyn, and they are more or less living in a monogamous marriage, with the proceeds of the money donated by the other wives.

Another thing is the impact of the cameras on the relationships. It's impossible to know whether things would have been different without that. It's only human to want to show the best side of things to the outside world, and also to make one's own case as opposed to the other person's.

So, farewell then, Kody and 'the wives'. I'll quite miss them, after tuning in so much for a while

It really is .

Yes, I had to google wet bar. For those who don't know it is a kitchen island with a sink, from what I can gather. I don't know what to think about Meri's desire to have the same size house as the others when she only has one child and the others have lots. On one hand, she doesn't 'need' as much space, but if she wants it, and as she has paid for it, it doesn't seem right that she should always be the poor relation compared to the others. I think that if Meri hadn't had fertility issues she might have been happier all round. When the family bought separate houses she was on her own a lot, when the point of a 'plural marriage' is that you share the children and bring them up communally. She missed all of that.

Kody has just suggested that his daughter go for surgery herself, or wait for Covid to be over (which may never have happened) because he thinks that he should be there and he wants to stay with Robyn which he couldn't do if he had to quarantine after going with her. I've never heard such a mememe speech as that, and given that the poor kid is in pain and has already spent years 'exploring non-surgical options' to save him splashing out on fees, it is even more of a disgrace.

I am just at the point where they are about to build 4 huge houses in the cul de sac in Las Venus. Meri is insisting she wants a wet bar in her large home. She wants a big house too and believes she should not be penalised for not having lots of kids. She is very moany and yeah passive aggressive too. She also won’t make her mind up about having another baby by ivf which is annoying Mariah and Kody. I’m finding it compulsive viewing.

I think she's quite passive aggressive, which will probably be because of her upbringing. She rarely confronts anything, but makes dark comments and walks away, which would drive me absolutely insane.

I understand that she believes that marriage is forever, but she is clearly very unhappy, and the longer she stays, the more she will limit her options when she leaves. I noticed in an earlier episode that Kody has a financial link to all the houses, so when she leaves it will take a good lawyer to extricate Meri's money from the complicated arrangements now that she is not legally married any more.

Obviously, with all the characters in something like this, one can only judge on what is presented - but I really disliked Meri and her seeming lack of ability to utter a whole meaningful sentence. She seemed to have friends met through her clothing sales business, so I never understood why she didn’t leave Kody, who made it pretty clear what he thought of her. I think Janelle was irritated by Meri because she (Janelle) was brighter.

At the risk of sounding ghoulish, I'm pleased to hear it . I'm beyond trying to analyse my feelings about polygamy (basically, I don't care what people do so long as it is with informed consent, and with that caveat I don't think it should be criminal) and am now both invested in the 'storyline' and waiting to see the downfall of Kody. It's become like a slow-moving soap.

I don't know what to make of Meri at this point. It's possible that she's just more jaded, but she is very miserable a lot of the time, and I don't know if that's because she has given a lot - she has one child instead of the many the others have, and has made a large financial contribution, compared to Robyn, who has five children and has made no financial contribution - or because the others are leaving her out.

You’ll find Covid changes the dynamics quite a lot Doodledog!! All downhill from here………..

We're up to Covid and lockdowns now.

It's tricky, as they are all in separate houses, but if they all agree not to leave the cul de sac there is no reason I can think of why, after a quarantine period, they can't all visit one another if they want to? Kody is saying that only he should go from house to house (it's either that or he moves in with one of them and stays put, as he doesn't have a house).

This is starting to feel like a journal of my viewing . I'm busy doing boring household things, so putting it on in breaks - I'm not glued to it all day long.

One word

NO

I've watched a bit more, and it's becoming clear that they live very separate lives. It's not like a harem at all - some wives buy houses, others rent, they don't necessarily live near to one another. They don't have to like one another or socialise outside of family things, of which there are many because of all the children.

Robyn is shaping up to be the villain of the piece, but I don't know whether I'd have noticed if I hadn't been told what happens. She came to the family with debt, doesn't work, and lives in a large house that the others paid for (yet talks as though she bought it herself). She is pushing the others away - I don't think Meri will be around for long.

Kody isn't improving . He has flights of fancy, such as moving house(s) which is stressful enough when it's just a couple, but with four wives and a million children is a logistical nightmare. They are now looking to build houses in Coyote Pass, after already having them built in Flagstaff. The sort of houses they have aren't easy to sell, and they haven't sold the LA ones yet, and still have the original one in Utah. It's idiotic, yet he blames the women for getting sick of him.

That is not, of course, anything to do with polygamy or Mormonism, but because of his bullish personality. The women are vocal in their resistance, though - not at all subservient. It is clear that they make a lot of money from the TV show, or the absolute folly of spending money on four massive houses would have ruined them.

As for why the set-up appeals to them, you may as well ask why monogamy appeals to people. It's cultural. What they get out of it is a ready made family - more of a tribe, really. There is support and security. They will never be alone in old age, for instance, and risks are shared as there is a financial pool of money that to which most of them contribute. The children are a huge part of that. They live with their respective mothers, but are more like siblings than cousins, and the other wives are closer than most aunts. The wives come and go a lot - to family and friends in other states, and their children are looked after by the others if they don't go too.

Kody is the 'head of household' in name only, really.

The 19th Wife is a 2008 novel by David Ebershoff. Inspired by the life of Ann Eliza Young, the novel intertwines a historical narrative with a modern-day murder mystery. Wikipedia

I'm glad its not just me that finds Kody totally CRINGE!

Doodledog

From the little I've seen, the wives do indeed appear to be independent - it's just the whole concept of Man + Multiple Wives + Religion that makes me suspicious - if that's the right word - of the motives of men like Kody who, incidentally, I find so irritating that I cannot watch the programme when he's holding forth.

I am interested in the motives of the women. Obviously - initially anyway - it worked for them. I'd like to know why the set up appealed to them. I can see that there might be a certain element of security in the arrangement for them and their children, and companionship with each other, as they have a lot in common, so there's that. I'd like to understand the dynamics more from their point of view... and a little less of Kody, although I admit I haven't watched much- but he always seems to be holding forth!

Dickens

OnwardandUpward

Haha yes Mr Darcy he is not!

Do we know if the only difference between LDS and FLDS is the polygamy? Only asking because I've known many LDS folk and they only have one spouse.

I think some people call the extra wives "spiritual wives".

Do we know if the only difference between LDS and FLDS is the polygamy?

I think most of the differences are biblical interpretations and 'admin', but know so little about it - maybe others are more informed?

I respect people's right to believe whatever floats their boat, but find most religions' 'patriarchical' tenets off-putting - not so much the 'mainstream' Christianity - I mean some of our English Law benefits from it - but these 'breakaway' religions and cults seem now very primitive in their attitude towards women and I personally have no interest in them, particularly those that regard women as subservient to men... where the women are expected to accept that the man has the final say on everything and subjugate themselves in the family to 'second place'.

That's not happening in this family . That's what I keep saying - the women are not subservient at all - they have their own houses, careers and lives. Kody doesn't have the last word, and although I'm sure he'd like to, that's because of his personality rather than his religion.

Despite it being explained on the programme, I don't really understand the religious or philosophical differences between LDS, FLDS and Mormons, but I assume it is similar to the differences between different branches of Christianity or any religion.

The main practical difference seems to be coercion or lack of it. In the more fundamentalist sects there is arranged marriage, education is not encouraged, the elders have power, down to what people can wear, read and so on. The family on the show are typical Americans (if there is such a thing) with freedom of expression, will and all the things that other Americans enjoy. They dress modestly, but not in such a way to make them stand out - they look like any other women - no cropped tops or low necked dresses, but jeans and the sort of clothes you could buy on any high street here. The only difference between their lives and mine is that my husband is married to me only, and they have lots of children. They live very like women whose husbands work away a lot - they see him once a week or so, and manage their households when he isn't there. When he is, he does things around the house and so on, but otherwise they just get on with things. When something important, such as moving from one state to another crops up, they have a family council to discuss it, but each wife can come to her own decision whether or not it is in line with the others.

OnwardandUpward

Haha yes Mr Darcy he is not!

Do we know if the only difference between LDS and FLDS is the polygamy? Only asking because I've known many LDS folk and they only have one spouse.

I think some people call the extra wives "spiritual wives".

Do we know if the only difference between LDS and FLDS is the polygamy?

I think most of the differences are biblical interpretations and 'admin', but know so little about it - maybe others are more informed?

I respect people's right to believe whatever floats their boat, but find most religions' 'patriarchical' tenets off-putting - not so much the 'mainstream' Christianity - I mean some of our English Law benefits from it - but these 'breakaway' religions and cults seem now very primitive in their attitude towards women and I personally have no interest in them, particularly those that regard women as subservient to men... where the women are expected to accept that the man has the final say on everything and subjugate themselves in the family to 'second place'.

Haha yes Mr Darcy he is not!

Do we know if the only difference between LDS and FLDS is the polygamy? Only asking because I've known many LDS folk and they only have one spouse.

I think some people call the extra wives "spiritual wives".

I'm currently on the episode where they are going to march against the criminalisation of polygamy.

However ambivalent I feel about Kody, I can't for the life of me see how a consensual arrangement like theirs should attract a five year sentence on each count (so 20 years for him and five each for the women). It is just pointlessly draconian. It's also illogical when he could legally have affairs with three of them whilst married to the fourth (which is, effectively, what's happening, but without the deceit). He could go from one woman to another and call them 'baby mothers' and that would be ok, too.

It comes down to whether they say they are married or not, which is idiotic, IMO. Something is or it isn't, where the law is concerned (or should be). People doing the exact same thing but calling it by different names should not be treated differently. Kody has just said that the law is being tightened because of sexual abuse in the FDLS church (of which they are not members), and that the answer should be to prosecute the abusers and leave the innocent polygamous families in peace. That seems sensible to me.

Doodledog

Oh he's dreadful . That's the problem - it's so hard to be open minded about the 'system' when the only husband is such a pillock.

...well he's no Mr Darcy, that's for sure!

I am sure there must be more appealing men who attract so many intelligent women?

Oh yes, I'm sure Kody is the reason why ! Actually there's no way a man can make all those women and kids happy. The situation is so messed up.

Oh he's dreadful . That's the problem - it's so hard to be open minded about the 'system' when the only husband is such a pillock.

I couldnt do it with anyone and definitely not with Kody. Is it me or is that man not the most petulant and annoying man child?

I can understand that, Hetty. I don't think I could get over a betrayal like that either. The difference is that the people involved don't feel the same. It's not a betrayal, as they are fully aware of the other wives, and even introduced the incoming ones to the husband, plus plural marriage is their 'normal'. I can't imagine that myself, and in some ways the cultures that have the first wife as an authority figure and the subsequent ones in strict rank order seem more in line with human nature than this arrangement.
Having said that, it's surprising what people will accept if they are brought up to see it as normal.

In many ways, it is never going to be possible to get a glimpse into a 'typical' arrangement like this. As is becoming clear, Kody has narcissistic tendencies, and the wives (with the probably exception of Meri) are extrovert enough to be comfortable with having cameras intruding on their personal lives. That's not for everyone, so a huge swathe of their population are ruled out before the start. No one family can be representative of a culture, so it is already impossible to make judgements on the basis of the series, however many episodes there are, and given the particular nature of the family dynamics it is even more difficult to draw conclusions.

It's still fascinating though

I just couldn't do it - as I'm very possessive and jealous. In a relationship, I expect to be adored, respected - worshipped in fact. That's not too much to ask, surely? Failing that, I'm happy on my own.

One new relationship I had ended abruptly - when I discovered he had another girlfriend. I said I couldn't ever be close to him again - as he was now 'contaminated' by her, I didn't feel the same.

He thought that was illogical - as we'd both recently ended other 'contaminating' partnerships. Still, emotions have never been logical - and I felt very betrayed, deceived and grubby. I couldn't be angry with her, as she knew nothing about me - but I was hopping mad with him - only just short of murderous.

Up until recently, kody sold guns, at gun shows

Yes it was always unfair how much advantage was given to Robyn.

Good for the others. Yes, poor Meri. Kody should never have replaced her. It was the beginning of the end for him, karmic. I hope Meri will find happiness.