Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

VioletSky

I don't think there was estrangement in Star's case either, lockdown was the factor. Before lockdown, the grandmother was often out drinking with that young mum and the grandfather was an addict. With an IQ of just 70 herself, that young lady needed a far better life and support system than she had.

Nasty comment, Violetsky
You know full well that the grandfather was so distressed about baby Star's murder that he committed suicide.

Personal anecdotes are interesting but no two personal experiences are the same. This does all need a review, even if just to find out if other countries manage this better.

Delila

Fair enough VS, I’m not advocating grandparents having automatic rights, but it would be wrong to give the impression that 9 out of 10 grandparents are high-risk.

That's not what I said, you need to read it again

Fair enough VS, I’m not advocating grandparents having automatic rights, but it would be wrong to give the impression that 9 out of 10 grandparents are high-risk.

Delila

I might have misunderstood what you’re saying VS, but as Stand Alone exists to support estranged adults I would guess that its statistic of 9 out of 10 might not necessarily represent the risks associated with grandparental involvement in general.

Yet people want to give people like my mother "automatic access" and want to argue that somehow more good than bad would come out of that situation?

Again the rights belong to the child and if a grandparent can prove themselves beneficial they can already go to court in this country. The caveat being they must prove themselves beneficial and the parents have the opportunity to dispute that

I don't think there was estrangement in Star's case either, lockdown was the factor. Before lockdown, the grandmother was often out drinking with that young mum and the grandfather was an addict. With an IQ of just 70 herself, that young lady needed a far better life and support system than she had.

I might have misunderstood what you’re saying VS, but as Stand Alone exists to support estranged adults I would guess that its statistic of 9 out of 10 might not necessarily represent the risks associated with grandparental involvement in general.

From work experience - GPs can pick upon abuse.

But, to fair, my family are currently going through the Family Court system, involving my GS, his dysfunctional ex girlfriend and a year old child - my great granddaughter.

But, we all need to carry on with all the checks, assessments etc, before the final judgement in May. Quite right.

It’s not needed any change in the law.

The social workers, the judge and every other professional involved wants us all involved.

They all think the extended family will bring nothing but good to this child.

But, it’s been a long saga, the mother can’t ever be involved, so I suppose it’s just trying to make the best of it.🙂

Most families don’t become estranged from both sets of grandparents though, so they are often in their lives even when the other set are estranged, or they maintain contact with other family members so they aren’t totally isolated, surely?

Smileless2012

Yes I do remember Little Star maddy which is why you're wrong when you it's Unlikely VS.

No I'm not

Go to Stand Alone, read the statistics on estrangement

The number one reason given by estranged children is emotional abuse

The average age of estrangement is about 35 because it took the average emotional abuse victim that long to realise what it was

Then read their stories, 9 out of 10 will tell you the grandparents abused their abusive parents and the parent chose to continue the cycle rather than seek help

Yes I do remember Little Star maddy which is why you're wrong when you it's Unlikely VS.

Smileless2012

That goes against the Children Act AmberSpyglass which exists in part to protect children's rights.

Nan and granddad may pick up on their GC being abused VS even if they only see their GC once a month and could also be seen by the child as a safe adult they can confide in.

Unlikely

They do maddy. For a GP to have any chance of success to obtain a contact order they need to prove that they've been a constant and regular person in that child's life.

If a parent is prepared to do everything the can to prevent the other parent being a part of their child's life, and we know that some do, what realistic chance do GP's have?

Nan and Grandad may pick up on their GC being abused

They may, as may other members of the extended family, but remember little Star, I think that was her name, murdered by her step parent, and the grandparents had reported their concerns more than once, and were ignored.

There is no perfect situation or solution. Abusers come in all shapes, sizes, and ages. Grandparents can be abusers, parents can be abusers, so can any adult that a child comes into contact with during their childhood. The most common abusers are step parents, or partners who are not the child’s natural parent, particularly males, but also females on occasion.

More commonly, some parents use their children to abuse their ex partner, and are obstructive with regard to anything and anyone in the child’s life. This is not to hurt the child, it is to hurt and control the ex partner. Sometimes grandparents are also included in this, and it seems to me to often be the paternal grandparents who suffer from this scenario. However, I’m not an expert. Perhaps the courts should consider the whole of the child’s life, people who were part of the child’s life before the parents separation and are important to the child. However I am very much aware that the courts are absolutely overwhelmed with cases such as these and trying to sort out parental access is difficult enough.

Anyway it’s not going to happen anytime soon.

That goes against the Children Act AmberSpyglass which exists in part to protect children's rights.

Nan and granddad may pick up on their GC being abused VS even if they only see their GC once a month and could also be seen by the child as a safe adult they can confide in.

Germanshepherdsmum

I was thinking about divorce proceedings maddy.

Yes, I realise that GSM.
I just thought it was worth noting.

No, I won’t be signing either. The paternal grandparents of DGD have behaved despicably and have only their own interests and (perceived) good name at heart. I think it’s desperately sad when decent GPs are separated from GC but, as another poster has said, it can just be another layer of manipulation by adults.

Some people just never give up. This is a prime example.

Theexwife true and statistically, abusive/neglectful or addicted parents are likely to have come from abusive homes

OP is asking for a Parliamentary debate but she knows that this has already been debated - on 2 May 2018. I linked to this yesterday - bottom of page one of this discussion. Here it is again:

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/108146/pdf/

Follow the bit.ly link within that document to the debate.

It was moved by Nigel Huddleston and debated for an hour. The then Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice, Lucy Frazer contributed to the debate. Little was achieved. Frazer said she was new to the post and would look at how the court system could be improved.

Frazer was appointed 9 January 2018. She lasted until 9 May 2019 and is now in her seventh post since then, currently at the Department for Media, Culture and Sport.

Since Frazer was moved on from Justice there have been seven more Under-Secretaries of State, currently Lord (Christopher) Bellamy KC who assumed office on 7 June 2022.

It is unknown what progress if anything has been made since the debate but having had the debate and secured a promise of sorts to review the court system, wouldn’t it be a better use of time to be petitioning the Ministry of Justice directly?

It would have been more helpful if OP had worded the petition to outline what progress has been made since the 2018 debate. Her petition makes no reference to that at all. Where is the source of her claim that 1 in 7 grandparents are prevented from seeing their grandchildren? That sounds excessive. Is this another extrapolation based on a very small survey sample? What specifically were these attempts to change the law and why specifically did they fail?

It’s all so woolly.

There is never going to be legislation giving all grandparents automatic access to grandchildren. That would set a very dangerous precedent. Where would be line be drawn as regards grandparents who should never have access to the child under any circumstances? These matters have to be resolved via the courts as every case is different.

MissAdventure

And there are some who have been there and are no longer around.

My suicide attempt was all due to emotional abuse

The physical abuse stopped when my father gained access visits. Actually that made my mother a hell of a lot worse, just in a different way.

Did my father ever know how unhappy I was? Absolutely not, children are conditioned to hide abuse and will hide unhappiness to enjoy time away from the house

VioletSky

MissAdventure

And there are some who have been there and are no longer around.

What magic happens to make an abusive person safe because Nan and grandad have a monthly visit?

Grandparents can also be abusers.

MissAdventure

And there are some who have been there and are no longer around.

What magic happens to make an abusive person safe because Nan and grandad have a monthly visit?

And there are some who have been there and are no longer around.

Gaining access to the grandchildren doesn't stop abuse. It just changes it

Generally from physical to emotional which is shown to be just as damaging

Been there