Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

Yes, GSM it does sound obsessive that you think I need to prove to you why I know about public things posted on a public forum.

I’d like to have the time to sit scrolling through old forum posts looking for something to bash posters with. How odd.😗

eddiecat78

Ok, SingcoTime if your "cause" is not to persuade others to your way of thinking exactly what are you doing here? 99.9% of people - including several who are estranged - have said they don't agree with the petition - and yet you still see fit to go on the attack

Choose to disengage if you have a problem. You're not compelled to respond to everything you read. You do realize that, right?

MissAdventure

I expect that's why nobody here has signed it.

😂😂😂

Always succinct MissAdventure 👍

DiamondLily

I’d like to have the time to sit scrolling through old forum posts looking for something to bash posters with. How odd.😗

Yet you have time to be here every single day. All posts we click on are choices. If the days I choose to log on to gransnet I click on an old thread vs a new, what does it matter one way or another? No one actually needs to spend any time on any thread. It's all voluntary. My point was that people who have actually been disciplined for bullying, and the proof is on gransnet, shouldn't causally accuse others when their behaviour has been much more egregious. It's odd that anyone thinks there are certain obligations in terms of which threads should and shouldn't be read.

SingcoTime

Yes, GSM it does sound obsessive that you think I need to prove to you why I know about public things posted on a public forum.

You think I need proof?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I agree it's odd MissA but each to their own.

If you're going to continue to allude to people who have actually been disciplined for bullying I think you should say who these people are SingcoTime rather than create an unpleasant atmosphere for everyone.

Or perhaps start a thread where we can all be insulted individually? 😉

Callistemon21

DiamondLily

Family Courts are supposed to abide by the Children Act and ensure that the needs of the child are paramount.

The rights of children should outstrip any rights of parents or grandparents.🙂

Absolutely, DiamondLily

Which is what I've said all along.

Beware though, you might get called vehemently sanctimonious for saying that.

I’m sure the law knows best. If it’s good enough for the Children Act, it’s good enough for me.👍

It does have it's critics though DL as it does in part recommend that where ever possible children remain with their birth parents, and this has in the past been cited as a potential reason why children were returned to unfit parents.

Smileless2012

It does have it's critics though DL as it does in part recommend that where ever possible children remain with their birth parents, and this has in the past been cited as a potential reason why children were returned to unfit parents.

Yes, nothing is perfect, but its intentions are good. Much depends on the people implementing it. With my ongoing saga, we are lucky that everyone is backing us, as a family, to be part of my GGD’s life, and that her birth mother should never be allowed near her, other than with close supervision.

Still, have to wait for the final judgement in May.

SingcoTime

Norah

DiamondLily

Family Courts are supposed to abide by the Children Act and ensure that the needs of the child are paramount.

The rights of children should outstrip any rights of parents or grandparents.🙂

This. Children own the rights, as they should.

I suspect estrangement is logical to the person estranging. I doubt GPs are abusive in most instances. More a conflict over what is acceptable raising children - times change. People don't always raise children as in times past, nor do they want their children treated as they were. Simple, really. Not abuse.

True. But it is this conflict that often leads to parental alienation and undermining when the grandparent refuses to accept the reduced role in rearing children that do not belong to them. My MIL was not abusive per se, but she was undermining and critical of us in front of them. She thought she knew better about everything, and when that arrogance lead to an incident, we decided she wasn't trustworthy to be left alone with our children ever. She of course went several steps further and was estranged after threatening us.

I agree fully that not everything is about direct abuse to the children. Sometimes it's the secondary harm of having conflicting "authority" figures confusing the children that is the issue.

Thank you. I don't require your approval. Please don't feel compelled to respond or explain my thoughts posted.

This thread clearly ruffled feathers

We have been back and forth for a couple of days over whether saying it shouldn't be signed and the reasons it shouldn't be signed is an attack on estranged GPs even though they themselves won't sign it so I am still baffled as to why it became an argument

I just want to close a door on people who are harmful around children while pointing out that those unfairly forced away from established loving relationships do have a case, even though they rarely want to put themselves or their grandchildren through a stressful court case... Sad for them

Those who never had that relationship, it must be difficult and I really would recommend grief counselling to process those feelings of loss as it is a lot to carry

Norah

SingcoTime

Norah

DiamondLily

Family Courts are supposed to abide by the Children Act and ensure that the needs of the child are paramount.

The rights of children should outstrip any rights of parents or grandparents.🙂

This. Children own the rights, as they should.

I suspect estrangement is logical to the person estranging. I doubt GPs are abusive in most instances. More a conflict over what is acceptable raising children - times change. People don't always raise children as in times past, nor do they want their children treated as they were. Simple, really. Not abuse.

True. But it is this conflict that often leads to parental alienation and undermining when the grandparent refuses to accept the reduced role in rearing children that do not belong to them. My MIL was not abusive per se, but she was undermining and critical of us in front of them. She thought she knew better about everything, and when that arrogance lead to an incident, we decided she wasn't trustworthy to be left alone with our children ever. She of course went several steps further and was estranged after threatening us.

I agree fully that not everything is about direct abuse to the children. Sometimes it's the secondary harm of having conflicting "authority" figures confusing the children that is the issue.

Thank you. I don't require your approval. Please don't feel compelled to respond or explain my thoughts posted.

Oh I won't. And I don't feel compelled even a little

The courts don't always get it right and Cafcass has made some poor decisions supposedly for the benefit of the child.

Smileless2012

I agree it's odd MissA but each to their own.

If you're going to continue to allude to people who have actually been disciplined for bullying I think you should say who these people are SingcoTime rather than create an unpleasant atmosphere for everyone.

Smileless, you can think what you like, doesn't mean I am have to oblige you in any way.

No one organisations gets everything right but thank goodness we do have them

VioletSky

This thread clearly ruffled feathers

We have been back and forth for a couple of days over whether saying it shouldn't be signed and the reasons it shouldn't be signed is an attack on estranged GPs even though they themselves won't sign it so I am still baffled as to why it became an argument

I just want to close a door on people who are harmful around children while pointing out that those unfairly forced away from established loving relationships do have a case, even though they rarely want to put themselves or their grandchildren through a stressful court case... Sad for them

Those who never had that relationship, it must be difficult and I really would recommend grief counselling to process those feelings of loss as it is a lot to carry

It's clear to me why it's become an argument.

Because argumentative people choose to turn it into one!

It's just a discussion, really, with all different and valid points of view being posted.

I’m frankly baffled about a lot of things on this thread. In fact, I’m finding it positively odd.🤐

All of the regular posters agreed that a petition wasn’t the best road, yet so many have been insulted by someone that hasn’t been on here long. Apparantly.

Strange.

I think they fail more than they should VS

The courts mostly get it right, though. Nothing in the world is perfect 100% of the time, but the general spirit of parents being the ultimate authority over the relationships of their minor children is the most important issue here. Petitions like this are ego-driven and little to do with the rights of the children.

AGAA4

I think they fail more than they should VS

But is that the organisation itself or the money put into these things?

I know people it has worked well for... I think genuinely, as I said earlier in the thread, that proving an adult unsafe is so so difficult when it comes to emotional abuse. And children are hardwired to love their caregivers

I also know that there are many GPs with estranged GCs, me included, who won't rock the boat for fear of causing harm to the GCs we love.