Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

For any reason at all?

Parenting is the parents’ choice, not the grandparents! If that includes them not wanting relatives in their family’s lives for any reason, that has to be respected. The idea of making it some sort of legal requirement is absolutely balderdash.

If grandparents being involved saved all the children, surely they’d just be given to grandparents once they were born. Bypass the parents all together.

Don't be silly. You are deliberately missing the point.

If grandparents being involved saved all the children, surely they’d just be given to grandparents once they were born. Bypass the parents all together.

As that would be ridiculous, we have to rely on the fact that in the majority of cases, no harm comes to children for not having grandparents in their lives.

The letter linked earlier mentions that one grandparent wanted veto power over a step parent adoption!! Grandparents should not have more rights than parents, which is what this petition is asking for.

The law focuses on children's rights yes on paper but tragically for too many, not in practice.

Anyone remember Maria Colwell? I was 14 when she was murdered by her stepfather and remember the news coverage and how 'this was never going to happen again' but how any times has this happened since 1975.

The law is failing children when it comes to their rights from one extreme of the right to be safe and protected from harm, to the other extreme of their right to know their extended family.

Some can't even see one of their parents because of the vindictiveness of the other one.

Bah! Involved. Not evolved.

How can it not be relevant?
If the grandparents had been in evolved, presumably it wouldn't have had such tragic consequences.
I haven't read the case, though.

The family courts do have the welfare of the child central. Things went catastrophically wrong for the baby returned to his parents under terms opposed by the social work team. I’m in no way defending what was clearly awful practice by the sw who visited but failed to take appropriate action. The timeline doesn’t show one visit by the Cafcass Children’s guardian, which i find astounding
That case is not relevant though in considering grandparents rights
The law focusses on children’s rights.

I was thinking about divorce proceedings maddy.

Incidentally he had well over 100 breaks and injuries to his body. When returned to the parents, he had no injuries.

That’s as it should be GSM, but when we hear, as we did last week, of a baby who was on the ‘at risk’ list from birth, was placed with foster parents for nine months and thrived, but was then returned to his drug addict parents, and was killed by them in less than two months, then I’m afraid I’m not convinced.

In my personal experience the rights of the child, not the parents, are the overriding concern maddyone.

No, the parent’s rights are often the overriding concern in the family court, although the child’s rights should come first, middle, and last. At least the situation, in theory, is better here than some other countries.

Children's rights are paramount but I don't believe they are taken into consideration in the family courts enough.

This is true, but is not imo sufficient reason to give all grandparents the rights sought in the petition.

Totally agree Maddyone

Callistemon there are children who would still be alive today if they had been allowed to see their grandparents or other members of the wider family. I feel that where children are completely cut off from the extended family, to be honest, there can be cause for concern. From the point of view of the child’s safety, and/or the point of view that the other parent, usually the mother but can be the father, is being controlled by the other parent. They use the children as pawns in a dangerous game.

maddyone

Tricky issue. We should remember that there are parents who do not have their children’s best interests at heart. There are parents who use their children to antagonise their former partner. We certainly shouldn’t believe that all parents have their children at the heart of their behaviour. And sadly their are parents who use their children to hurt their parents or parents in law. Nonetheless the less, I’m unsure about signing because, although other countries do have grandparents rights enshrined in law, it is not the way things have been done here. I’m genuinely unsure. The rights of children are already enshrined in law, but sadly some parents do not respect their children’s rights.

Well said maddyone
Many people are looking at this from the angle that it is only the grandparents who are the problem and the reason why there is estrangement, when it could be the parents or in fact just one of the parents.

I can see all sides of this and won't be signing although I do think it is something that needs to be addressed very carefully.

Part of the joy of becoming an adult is that one is no longer under the authority of their parents' rule.

I don't remember my parents ruling me. I suppose there were sensible rules (ie don't cheek your mother!) but on the whole, it was all pretty laissz-faire and I learnt by example.

I think France has the wording right. The child has the right. This petition is to give grandparents the right. That's the wrong way round.
I agree, Glorianny, although I suppose with very young children, it would be difficult. How old would they have to be to be able to make a considered decision?

TinSoldier

Germanshepherdsmum

These things are only about what the grandparents want, with ‘and it’s in the grandchildren’s interests’ thrown in as an aside.

I agree. There have been several similar petitions. I can’t find one that has gathered much support and enough signatures to require action from the goverment. The courts are there to deal with family matters. Presumably, if the non-custodial parent has access rights they can organise that so that their own parents can see the children then.

It may seem anathema to say it on this of all forums, but I think some grandparents may be overestimating their importance in a child’s life. The petition is worded mostly from the grandparent’s perspective. To claim that no contact is a living bereavement is being overdramatic.

Beyond direct parental rights, giving legal rights to one person to have contact with another would set a very dangerous precedent. In some cases, even giving direct parental rights is not in the best interests of the child.

The child's perspective. Both my grandfathers died young, in their 30s, long before I was born. My parents separated when I was young. I had no further contact with my father or his mother. From then on, I knew only my maternal grandmother who helped my mother with childcare so that she could work.

As a child, I had no curiosity whatsoever about my other grandparents. I doubt that not having these people in my life, even if that were possible, has made much difference to who I am. I did well at school and in my career. I had a very happy marriage and consider myself a normal, well-balanced person.

What I know now about my other three grandparents is only through general genealogical research which I began for other reasons entirely. It was just part of the process of going back in time. I feel no longing or regret that I never knew them, no more than I feel for great-grandparents or generations before them. It's no more than a genetic link.

I won't sign it, either.

I think I’m coming round to the view expressed by Glorianny.

I think a lot of people on here are over thinking this. I might be wrong, because we have no such proposed legislation, and so obviously it would depend on how the law would be framed, but I cannot see any such law in the UK giving rights to grandparents over parents, surely if it ever happened, it would be a bolt on. Having interviewed all parties, including the children, it would be some sort of reasonable access, maybe the right to see the children a few times a year, not as mentioned, to spend Christmas with them and thus denying the parents the rights to see their own children.

I think perhaps many people have no experience of coercive control and how that can destroy family relationships. I hope you never do!
By the way, it’s illegal here in the UK.

Summerlove

*Should parents really have the right to cut off all contact with every member of their extended family? It’s a tricky issue.*

Absolutely they should. Is it sad? Yes. But you should not be able to force people to spend their time on people they have no interest being around.

Your opinion (and others) is based on parents always making decisions in their children’s best interests.
Unfortunately they don’t!

fancythat

Callistemon21

Under Australian family law, children have the right to spend time with and communicate with their parents and other people who are important to them. This includes grandparents and other extended family members.

Grandparents can apply to a family law court for a parenting order. This means that a family law court can make an order for a child to live, spend time, and communicate with a grandparent

In Canada Grandparents have the right to apply for visiting rights and decision-making responsibility, as long as it is in the child’s best interests.

In dire situations, the grandparents can even seek the Court’s approval for sole decision-making responsibility and even custody. Usually the Courts will grant this if the grandparents can prove that the child’s parents are unfit to exercise decision-making responsibility or to have custody/parenting time over the child. The simplest example to this is when both parents are abusive or are drug addicts.

USA In many states, grandparents have the legal right to request visitation with their grandchildren. If the parents object, the court will consider this. The court will also consider several other factors that focus on the well-being of the minor child.

France The child has the right to have personal relationships with his grandparents. This right can be suppressed only for very serious reasons. The provision concerns all ascendants (ancestors) of the child, so great grandparents also have a contact right with the child.

It does seem as if the UK needs to take another look at this situation.

I think I agree.

I was so surprised when another poster on a previous thread a few months ago on this subject, said that other countries do it differently.

I think France has the wording right. The child has the right. This petition is to give grandparents the right. That's the wrong way round. Legally even a parent does not have a right to see a child if the child objects or there is a good reason why that parent shouldn't see the child. Children are consulted about the arrangements for their care when there is family breakdown and contact with grandparents could be discussed at that time. If a child expressed a wish to have contact with their GPs then it could be arranged. But GPs should not be able to demand contact.