Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

SORES

Callistemon21

Well, SORES, what if you'd had parents or a step-parent who abused you, threatened you and you were prevented from seeing the only people you knew who truly loved you and you could speak to?

Not all grandparents are estranged because they are abusive.
Not all parents are loving and caring.
Not all parents prevent their children seeing grandparents for the good of the child.

well Callistemon, this is indeed an excellent description of my young life, abuse, isolation, kept from grandparents and wider family, threatened, abused, hit, then as a mother making sure my children were not subject to the same treatment, firing up their need for control at all costs.
I know all this, I lived it - you are preaching to the choir.
This subject is a powderkeg of emotion for those of us justifiably protecting our young, against the odds sometimes,
when only we and our children know the truth.

It’s not like you to be so vehemently sanctimonious.

It’s not like you to be so vehemently sanctimonious

Me?? I'm not sure what vehemently sanctimonious means but it doesn't sound like a compliment.

I'm so sorry, SORES, for what you went through.

My only concerns are ever with the child/ren.

I legitimately don't understand this. If the child is being abused by the parents, there are laws for that. There are ways to report the abuse and have the child removed.

And you think that happens in all cases?
Honestly?

Not for me. I fear it could make life very difficult for any child involved.

Smileless2012

This isn't about the rights of GP's to see their GC, or the rights of parents to prevent their children from continuing the relationship they have with their GP's, it's about *the rights of the children*; rights which are and shouldn't be denied.

No it isn't a sweeping statement VS, there are too many children who lose their GP's because mum/dad or both parents have an issue with parents/p's.i'l's. One child who loses out is one child too many.

This petition isn't something I would sign but let's be right here, this is about children's rights, not their parents rights and not their GP's rights, and that has nothing to do with anyone wanting rights over a child.

I don’t see it like that. The right of a child is surely to have as happy a life as their parents are able to provide? If the parent is unhappy with their child having contact with their grandparents then they shouldn’t, otherwise the child becomes a weapon caught in the middle of the war between their parents and grandparents, which is not in their best interests at all. Their right to contact grandparents when they are 18 should they wish to still exists of course.

Perhaps if the powers that be worked in a more proactive way, it would be easier to remove children from harm, and remove those whose influence is harmful from being around them.

If only it did VS.

Germanshepherdsmum

I couldn’t agree more VS”

I think it is also true that parents don't have the automatic right to see their children... for all sorts of reasons, including protecting children from harm and removing the child from an unsafe home... the law puts children first

This isn't about the rights of GP's to see their GC, or the rights of parents to prevent their children from continuing the relationship they have with their GP's, it's about *the rights of the children*; rights which are and shouldn't be denied.

No it isn't a sweeping statement VS, there are too many children who lose their GP's because mum/dad or both parents have an issue with parents/p's.i'l's. One child who loses out is one child too many.

This petition isn't something I would sign but let's be right here, this is about children's rights, not their parents rights and not their GP's rights, and that has nothing to do with anyone wanting rights over a child.

I couldn’t agree more VS”

Babyshark

I won’t sign this. The unintended consequences are massive and detrimental to the children.

They aren’t your children to have rights over.

This 100%. You simply don’t have rights to children that are not your own. As it should be

That's a very sweeping statement Smileless

The rules are as they are because the children's rights come first

That's why children get their own representative in court that can and does overrule the parents if needed

If grandparents can genuinely prove a relationship is in the child's best interest and the child's rights are being denied they can go to court...

But where a person wants rights over a child that isn't theirs and believes that right should overrule both parents and children... Then that makes everyone uncomfortable and they won't sign

Yes it is a knotty problem MissA and as I posted earlier, if some parents put the needs and wishes of their children above their own grievances, then we wouldn't have situations where children lose the GP's they know and love, because of the differences their parents have with their own parents.

The law in the UK doesn't give GP's, children though do have rights and the parents who deny them those rights are the ones who are at fault here, not the GP's who want to continue to have their relationship with their GC, or the children who want to continue to have that relationship with their GP's.

Too many children are used by their parents to 'punish' their own parents.

We never knew our only GC and had we done so, and had an established relationship with them I don't know what we'd have done. Maybe we would have gone through the courts I don't know, but I don't believe that GP's who do choose to do so should be criticised.

It's the parents who are in the wrong, not the GP's and certainly not the children.

AGAA4

It's very sad for those estranged GPs who would have been loving and caring and enhanced the lives of their GCs but as I posted earlier it is a privilege not a right.

Is it a child's right though, if it will benefit them, and that is what they want?

Assuming they're old enough to decide.

It's a very knotty problem.

Although if mediation fails, a Child Arrangement Order can be sought

That says it all. If mediation has failed, what hope is there that the parties can work out an amicable arrangement for access.
And if a child arrangement order can be sought, what’s the actual problem?
I won’t be signing.

Plus the other danger is that certain children don't actually report things correctly depending on their stage of development. For example, a child can run past someone and trip over their leg and genuinely believe it is their fault that happened whereas actually, it was an accident and the other person didn't move.

Also they do say things to cover themselves, like I remember being called in by my son's teacher for him being extremely tired and his baby brother keeping him awake... His brother was breastfed and never had time to cry. My son had been sneaking time on a kindle after bed.

It's a minefield working in a school sometimes lol

An unfortunate truth is most children don't tell about abuse that happens... And one rule of safeguarding is you cannot question a child because it is too easy to implant ideas in a child's head.

You can only report what a child tells you without questioning or any physical signs of abuse/neglect that you can evidence

In court it can be argued that asking leading questions or making certain statements to a child is in itself alienation... Meaning the person doing it would be ruled unsafe

It's very sad for those estranged GPs who would have been loving and caring and enhanced the lives of their GCs but as I posted earlier it is a privilege not a right.

Callistemon21

Well, SORES, what if you'd had parents or a step-parent who abused you, threatened you and you were prevented from seeing the only people you knew who truly loved you and you could speak to?

Not all grandparents are estranged because they are abusive.
Not all parents are loving and caring.
Not all parents prevent their children seeing grandparents for the good of the child.

well Callistemon, this is indeed an excellent description of my young life, abuse, isolation, kept from grandparents and wider family, threatened, abused, hit, then as a mother making sure my children were not subject to the same treatment, firing up their need for control at all costs.
I know all this, I lived it - you are preaching to the choir.
This subject is a powderkeg of emotion for those of us justifiably protecting our young, against the odds sometimes,
when only we and our children know the truth.

It’s not like you to be so vehemently sanctimonious.

Widening the pool of danger

Sorry

Yes it's just wondering the pool of danger for children really by giving even more people rights to have them alone

I agree grandparents shouldn't have rights to contact but they should be listened to and taken seriously if they believe their GC is being abused and this doesn't always happen.

No social services don't always get it right and are understaffed and underfunded...

Adding more adults having a right to access against parents wishes would add further strain to social services

Smileless2012

I agree that this needs to be looked at again here in the UK Callistemon and perhaps France has the right idea.

France still operates on Napoleoniv Law, whereby the child cannot be disenfranchised, a completely different mindset, completely, children absorbed into a family, four generations out dining together,is an obvious example.

In the case I posted earlier SS were involved but thought the child should stay with the mother. If the GM hadn't intervened that child would have suffered horribly and may have even died. Social Services don't always get it right.

Which is one reason why her endless efforts have got nowhere, and I hope that continues to be the case.