Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

Glorianny

Iam64

Research is clear, children are negatively affected by parental separation. It’s worse of course if it’s full of conflict and anger between parents, easier if parents cop aren’t well
To say mh problems are no
More caused by divorce than chicken pox is denies the reality

But if this were true surely when divorce wasn't common then there would have been no mental health problems. But there were plenty. Mental health problems are caused through a complex mixture of genetics, early life experiences and trauma. They are not caused by divorce. My dad was bi-polar no one in the family was divorced.

Why would there be no mh problems when divorce was less. We all know about early psychological assessments eg Freud and his conclusions.

I agree with you on the contributors to mh problems developing. I disagree that they arent contributors to mh problems

My own experience of divorce from an abusive husband, and my son ceasing to see his father, is that it was hugely beneficial for him. Every situation is different, but imo a child is harmed more by being exposed to a very unhappy marriage than by the marriage coming to an end.

I’m with you on this gsm. I was in a similar situation

Iam64

Glorianny

Iam64

Research is clear, children are negatively affected by parental separation. It’s worse of course if it’s full of conflict and anger between parents, easier if parents cop aren’t well
To say mh problems are no
More caused by divorce than chicken pox is denies the reality

But if this were true surely when divorce wasn't common then there would have been no mental health problems. But there were plenty. Mental health problems are caused through a complex mixture of genetics, early life experiences and trauma. They are not caused by divorce. My dad was bi-polar no one in the family was divorced.

Why would there be no mh problems when divorce was less. We all know about early psychological assessments eg Freud and his conclusions.

I agree with you on the contributors to mh problems developing. I disagree that they arent contributors to mh problems

There is a difference between causing and contributing.

Here’s a hair for you to split Glorianny. Debate on important issues is impossible when Some Posters are only there to score points, rather than discuss

Iam64

Here’s a hair for you to split Glorianny. Debate on important issues is impossible when Some Posters are only there to score points, rather than discuss

Germanshepherdsmum

My own experience of divorce from an abusive husband, and my son ceasing to see his father, is that it was hugely beneficial for him. Every situation is different, but imo a child is harmed more by being exposed to a very unhappy marriage than by the marriage coming to an end.

Perhaps people could quit arguing, for arguing sake, then they could accept/admit this truth. I'm not in/from a family that divorces (religious views) - even I understand this concept.

Germanshepherdsmum

My own experience of divorce from an abusive husband, and my son ceasing to see his father, is that it was hugely beneficial for him. Every situation is different, but imo a child is harmed more by being exposed to a very unhappy marriage than by the marriage coming to an end.

Yes, where abuse is involved, children are damaged by that. In those circumstances, then it is beneficial for separate households.

But, there are too many circumstances where children are produced without thought by adults, with how their relationship is, where they will live, and how they will be supported - financially and emotionally..

The father often just wanders off, starts a new life, or both parents are more interested in their own needs and wants, whether that’s alcohol, drugs or whatever, and children are the ones that pay heavily.☹️

Casdon

Iam64

Here’s a hair for you to split Glorianny. Debate on important issues is impossible when Some Posters are only there to score points, rather than discuss

Sorry I think mental health is an important issue and it's important that the causes are not wrongly attributed. Divorce does not cause mental health issues. And if you look at the figures divorce numbers are falling but mental health issues in children are increasing. So there is very little, if any, correlation.
If we want to look at why children have more mental health issues perhaps we should be looking at an education system which puts them under pressure from a young age, ignores play and creativity and focuses on "core subjects". Where they are constantly told they must succeed or they will have no future. It's much more damaging than any divorce.

I absolutely agree with you, DL. What I call feckless parents, though I wouldn’t say that of a woman who believed she was in a stable relationship and was then deserted by the father. I am a strong believer in marriage, and producing children afterwards. It is so easy for people to slip into and out of relationships, and many seem utterly careless about contraception. I am wholly in favour of people living together before marriage because if that had not been frowned upon when I was young I wouldn’t have married my first husband. But I like to see children coming along after the commitment of marriage has been made. Old fashioned? Yes, probably, but my son and daughter in law, who are by no means old fashioned, hold the same values.

Some experts would disagree:

“ Nearly three decades of research evaluating the impact of family structure on the health and well-being of children demonstrates that children living with their married, biological parents consistently have better physical, emotional, and academic well-being. Pediatricians and society should promote the family structure that has the best chance of producing healthy children. The best scientific literature to date suggests that, with the exception of parents faced with unresolvable marital violence, children fare better when parents work at maintaining the marriage. Consequently, society should make every effort to support healthy marriages and to discourage married couples from divorcing.”

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/

Well, I did put up with the abuse for 23 years and he was the one who left (how pleased I was when he did!).

Germanshepherdsmum

I absolutely agree with you, DL. What I call feckless parents, though I wouldn’t say that of a woman who believed she was in a stable relationship and was then deserted by the father. I am a strong believer in marriage, and producing children afterwards. It is so easy for people to slip into and out of relationships, and many seem utterly careless about contraception. I am wholly in favour of people living together before marriage because if that had not been frowned upon when I was young I wouldn’t have married my first husband. But I like to see children coming along after the commitment of marriage has been made. Old fashioned? Yes, probably, but my son and daughter in law, who are by no means old fashioned, hold the same values.

Sorry, yes, the above was to another poster.

Yep, I’m at the moment involved with a protracted court case involving my GGD. A year old.

I could, quite honestly, brain my grandson, and I’ve told him this.

With better contraception than ever, neither he nor the lunatic he was involved with, have any excuse.

We (extended family) will all do the best we can with how it is, but I am seriously hacked off with him.

Children have always thrived best with two loving parents.

My DD and DS, plus partners, share my views, but it’s slipped with one GS.🙄

Germanshepherdsmum

Well, I did put up with the abuse for 23 years and he was the one who left (how pleased I was when he did!).

Yep, well, abuse is damaging to both the abused and the children. Glad you’ve put it behind you.💐

Thanks. I can never regret the marriage because without it I wouldn’t have my wonderful son - who is an excellent husband and father.

My daughter believed in marriage, but it becomes impossible sometimes when one partner is exerting control over the other. She had to leave.

In cases of abuse, then, yes, of course the relationship needs to end. That doesn’t do anyone anything good.

My ex and I hadn’t got any abuse, we just drifted - so, it was easy to keep the show on the road when our children were growing up.

But this, often, reckless idea of bashing out kids, when the relationship is either new or unstable to begin with, is causing damage to children.

Germanshepherdsmum

Thanks. I can never regret the marriage because without it I wouldn’t have my wonderful son - who is an excellent husband and father.

Yes, my ex was a pillock, but I’ve got two great kids, so I’m grateful for that. 👍

Totally disagree with this, my MIL caused fecal impaction and anal fissures in my 6 month old daughter (she was in AGONY and sobbing) despite being told 4 times that the doctor has said she wasn't allowed certain foods and knowing that they could cause extreme constipation. She just thought she knew better and fed my daughter when I wasn't there.

There were other instances of toxic behaviour and we are now no contact. If this went through, she would legally be entitled to access to my kids and I would have to spend a fortune trying to defend the decision to prevent her access - that money could be spent on my children.

For context, I am still very much with her son (he is low contact with her) and we both agree the best thing is for our children to stay away from this woman. Why should she have legal rights when both parents decide someone is too toxic/unfit to be around their kids? Not to mention she's not even physically capable of lifting them. That's crazy!

Only the 2 parents made that child/those children so they should be the only ones with legal rights - not extended family. Next are we going to start giving legal rights to aunts, uncles, cousins and everyone else?

If there has been a divorce or relationship breakdown, paternal grandparents can see the grandchildren when the son has his access (if anything, the system needs improving for fathers to see their children)

If there is a way to contest this petition I'm sure myself and many other mothers who have had to deal with toxic/manipulative/unsafe grandparents will be doing that.

The petition isn’t going anywhere, no need to worry about contesting it. The OP who started it has tried this before and failed - and will do again with this one. She has an agenda.

DiamondLily

Some experts would disagree:

“ Nearly three decades of research evaluating the impact of family structure on the health and well-being of children demonstrates that children living with their married, biological parents consistently have better physical, emotional, and academic well-being. Pediatricians and society should promote the family structure that has the best chance of producing healthy children. The best scientific literature to date suggests that, with the exception of parents faced with unresolvable marital violence, children fare better when parents work at maintaining the marriage. Consequently, society should make every effort to support healthy marriages and to discourage married couples from divorcing.”

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/

Thanks Diamond for posting this. As I’ve been saying research is clear no matter how much Some Posters insist it isn’t. I’m another who left a miserable marriage having spent 11 years trying to make it work. I was the first in my family to divorce it was very hard on so many levels. There was occasional violence but what is now known as emotional abuse but didn’t have a name at that time. I’ve no regrets and built a good life which I wouldn’t have if I’d stayed.

Iam64

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240051/

Thanks Diamond for posting this. As I’ve been saying research is clear no matter how much Some Posters insist it isn’t. I’m another who left a miserable marriage having spent 11 years trying to make it work. I was the first in my family to divorce it was very hard on so many levels. There was occasional violence but what is now known as emotional abuse but didn’t have a name at that time. I’ve no regrets and built a good life which I wouldn’t have if I’d stayed.

This.

Well done you.

I'm not one who believes in divorce, as I have indicated, religious reasons, however it can become necessary and prove worthwhile.

I think divorce is likely far better for children than what is going on inside a bad marriage. Children don't thrive in a bad environment.

Perhaps a reason people estrange from those they disapprove of also.

You're right GSM, there's no need for anyone to contest this petition. Only one other poster in addition to the OP is in support of it, no one else on this thread including EGP's is in agreement.

I agree Norah and posted earlier that a hostile environment where parents are unhappy and constantly arguing, isn't good for children.

Thank you for the posting the link DL, it supports what many of us are saying.

I didn’t leave my husband because I didn’t believe in divorce and nobody in my family had divorced. It meant years of misery. I could only consider initiating divorce proceedings once my husband had left - then he expected to return but my mind was made up. He made this divorce unbelievably difficult and long drawn out but it was without doubt the best thing for my son and for me.

Germanshepherdsmum

I didn’t leave my husband because I didn’t believe in divorce and nobody in my family had divorced. It meant years of misery. I could only consider initiating divorce proceedings once my husband had left - then he expected to return but my mind was made up. He made this divorce unbelievably difficult and long drawn out but it was without doubt the best thing for my son and for me.