Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

Germanshepherdsmum

I haven’t seen arguments but I have seen anger and unwarranted insults.

Yep, but luckily most of us are of an age where we’ve, generally, been insulted by experts lol - so this is pretty small potatoes.😉

What has been an attack on GP's, not just seen as one VS are the references to abusive, controlling, toxic and narc GP's.

I didn't think you would SingcoTime.

Because argumentative people choose to turn it into one indeed MissA.

I agree AGAA4. My brother now retired, was a family solicitor who for several years was on the Child Care panel and represented children who were victims of abuse and said they are failed more often than they should be.

I always beat myself up because for most of my parenting journey I never thought for a second my mother would harm my children.

I was convinced that I wasn't good enough and she only treated me badly because of that. I had no idea how emotional abuse and gaslighting worked. She was my mother and I loved her.

It was when she successfully destroyed another relationship I had and the massive argument that caused when I took a break from her and running around after her. My children expressed relief at not seeing her which led to them sharing that they didn't want to see her again. It actually took years for them to tell me everything. Especially one of my daughters who she made feel the same way I did.

I'll never forgive myself for not knowing, not understanding how much damage this woman did to us.

That's why I continue to have these conversations online. If just one child can be saved, that makes it worth it

I can’t only speak from my current experience. Social workers, Cafcass, and the Guardian Ad Litem are all backing us, so far as my GGD is concerned. In previous hearings the judge has helped us to clarify things.

All involved seem to be putting the child first - which in everyone’s view is that she shouldn’t be around the birth mother.

Not every case is the same though. It’s been a long slog.

I haven’t seen arguments but I have seen anger and unwarranted insults.

Arguments take more than party. If you read a comment that doesn't apply to you but you insist on responding, who is actually doing the arguing? When you want to argue, you do. When you don't, you don't. It's that simple.

VioletSky

This thread clearly ruffled feathers

We have been back and forth for a couple of days over whether saying it shouldn't be signed and the reasons it shouldn't be signed is an attack on estranged GPs even though they themselves won't sign it so I am still baffled as to why it became an argument

I just want to close a door on people who are harmful around children while pointing out that those unfairly forced away from established loving relationships do have a case, even though they rarely want to put themselves or their grandchildren through a stressful court case... Sad for them

Those who never had that relationship, it must be difficult and I really would recommend grief counselling to process those feelings of loss as it is a lot to carry

It hasn’t ruffled my feathers. It’s a forum. I’m bemused, as are others, but that’s it.

I think I’ll manage without any counselling.

Everyone virtually agreed, yet one poster is still seeming angry.

Life’s too short for that.🙄

I also know that there are many GPs with estranged GCs, me included, who won't rock the boat for fear of causing harm to the GCs we love.

AGAA4

I think they fail more than they should VS

But is that the organisation itself or the money put into these things?

I know people it has worked well for... I think genuinely, as I said earlier in the thread, that proving an adult unsafe is so so difficult when it comes to emotional abuse. And children are hardwired to love their caregivers

The courts mostly get it right, though. Nothing in the world is perfect 100% of the time, but the general spirit of parents being the ultimate authority over the relationships of their minor children is the most important issue here. Petitions like this are ego-driven and little to do with the rights of the children.

I think they fail more than they should VS

I’m frankly baffled about a lot of things on this thread. In fact, I’m finding it positively odd.🤐

All of the regular posters agreed that a petition wasn’t the best road, yet so many have been insulted by someone that hasn’t been on here long. Apparantly.

Strange.

VioletSky

This thread clearly ruffled feathers

We have been back and forth for a couple of days over whether saying it shouldn't be signed and the reasons it shouldn't be signed is an attack on estranged GPs even though they themselves won't sign it so I am still baffled as to why it became an argument

I just want to close a door on people who are harmful around children while pointing out that those unfairly forced away from established loving relationships do have a case, even though they rarely want to put themselves or their grandchildren through a stressful court case... Sad for them

Those who never had that relationship, it must be difficult and I really would recommend grief counselling to process those feelings of loss as it is a lot to carry

It's clear to me why it's become an argument.

Because argumentative people choose to turn it into one!

It's just a discussion, really, with all different and valid points of view being posted.

No one organisations gets everything right but thank goodness we do have them

Smileless2012

I agree it's odd MissA but each to their own.

If you're going to continue to allude to people who have actually been disciplined for bullying I think you should say who these people are SingcoTime rather than create an unpleasant atmosphere for everyone.

Smileless, you can think what you like, doesn't mean I am have to oblige you in any way.

The courts don't always get it right and Cafcass has made some poor decisions supposedly for the benefit of the child.

Norah

SingcoTime

Norah

DiamondLily

Family Courts are supposed to abide by the Children Act and ensure that the needs of the child are paramount.

The rights of children should outstrip any rights of parents or grandparents.🙂

This. Children own the rights, as they should.

I suspect estrangement is logical to the person estranging. I doubt GPs are abusive in most instances. More a conflict over what is acceptable raising children - times change. People don't always raise children as in times past, nor do they want their children treated as they were. Simple, really. Not abuse.

True. But it is this conflict that often leads to parental alienation and undermining when the grandparent refuses to accept the reduced role in rearing children that do not belong to them. My MIL was not abusive per se, but she was undermining and critical of us in front of them. She thought she knew better about everything, and when that arrogance lead to an incident, we decided she wasn't trustworthy to be left alone with our children ever. She of course went several steps further and was estranged after threatening us.

I agree fully that not everything is about direct abuse to the children. Sometimes it's the secondary harm of having conflicting "authority" figures confusing the children that is the issue.

Thank you. I don't require your approval. Please don't feel compelled to respond or explain my thoughts posted.

Oh I won't. And I don't feel compelled even a little

This thread clearly ruffled feathers

We have been back and forth for a couple of days over whether saying it shouldn't be signed and the reasons it shouldn't be signed is an attack on estranged GPs even though they themselves won't sign it so I am still baffled as to why it became an argument

I just want to close a door on people who are harmful around children while pointing out that those unfairly forced away from established loving relationships do have a case, even though they rarely want to put themselves or their grandchildren through a stressful court case... Sad for them

Those who never had that relationship, it must be difficult and I really would recommend grief counselling to process those feelings of loss as it is a lot to carry

SingcoTime

Norah

DiamondLily

Family Courts are supposed to abide by the Children Act and ensure that the needs of the child are paramount.

The rights of children should outstrip any rights of parents or grandparents.🙂

This. Children own the rights, as they should.

I suspect estrangement is logical to the person estranging. I doubt GPs are abusive in most instances. More a conflict over what is acceptable raising children - times change. People don't always raise children as in times past, nor do they want their children treated as they were. Simple, really. Not abuse.

True. But it is this conflict that often leads to parental alienation and undermining when the grandparent refuses to accept the reduced role in rearing children that do not belong to them. My MIL was not abusive per se, but she was undermining and critical of us in front of them. She thought she knew better about everything, and when that arrogance lead to an incident, we decided she wasn't trustworthy to be left alone with our children ever. She of course went several steps further and was estranged after threatening us.

I agree fully that not everything is about direct abuse to the children. Sometimes it's the secondary harm of having conflicting "authority" figures confusing the children that is the issue.

Thank you. I don't require your approval. Please don't feel compelled to respond or explain my thoughts posted.

Smileless2012

It does have it's critics though DL as it does in part recommend that where ever possible children remain with their birth parents, and this has in the past been cited as a potential reason why children were returned to unfit parents.

Yes, nothing is perfect, but its intentions are good. Much depends on the people implementing it. With my ongoing saga, we are lucky that everyone is backing us, as a family, to be part of my GGD’s life, and that her birth mother should never be allowed near her, other than with close supervision.

Still, have to wait for the final judgement in May.

It does have it's critics though DL as it does in part recommend that where ever possible children remain with their birth parents, and this has in the past been cited as a potential reason why children were returned to unfit parents.

Callistemon21

DiamondLily

Family Courts are supposed to abide by the Children Act and ensure that the needs of the child are paramount.

The rights of children should outstrip any rights of parents or grandparents.🙂

Absolutely, DiamondLily

Which is what I've said all along.

Beware though, you might get called vehemently sanctimonious for saying that.

I’m sure the law knows best. If it’s good enough for the Children Act, it’s good enough for me.👍

Or perhaps start a thread where we can all be insulted individually? 😉

I agree it's odd MissA but each to their own.

If you're going to continue to allude to people who have actually been disciplined for bullying I think you should say who these people are SingcoTime rather than create an unpleasant atmosphere for everyone.