Wife cannot tolerate my adult children, can't invite them for Christmas.

OP

Yes, I meant "her", my bad

Gary345 I think you maybe posted this in the wrong place?

Maybe you should start a new one?

I'm glad you have managed a conversation.
Good start.

NotSpaghetti: C stayed 2-3 days in Spring, spent most daytime out with eldest child A and their family who were visiting. Has n't stayed quite this long. Wife says they are smelly and mouthy, true, but not rude. Anyway, feeling a little better today thanks for help, felt more able to talk. Things came to a head today between us, not brilliant but at least we have talked.
Hither "Your ex is certainly doing no favours to his own AC - B."
Did you mean " "her" own AC"? That's true. To clarify my X and I have 3 AC, A and C live far away, B with X, no other children on either side.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Given that your son/daughter "B" has been relatively stable long enough to now hold down a job in the NHS I feel they should be able to visit for a few hours. If this was my adult child I would want them to be able to come. As your wife tolerates visits on "ordinary" days when you "warn her" I don't understand why this much longer warning is not acceptable to her.

The adult child without a "problem" history should be invited.
This seems to be the first time you've had this opportunity and I think it is this that your wife isn't keen on because it is easier for her not to bother. You say you have been together 16 years and in all that time your children haven't spent Christmas with you. It seems to have been built up in (both?) your minds that this will be a problem. If you were advising a friend, what would you say to them?

How long has adult child "C" previously stayed with you? Have they stayed 4 days before?

AC is Adult Child.
I presume B is because you refer to your child as 'B'

Hithere what's AC - B ?

Good luck but don’t play into your wife’s fear it will only confirm that she was right to be fearful

So there could be signs of instability in B's behavior that your wife may be picking up? You do acknowledge he does seem paranoid sometimes

Your ex is certainly doing no favours to his own AC - B.
This incoming crisis between them will get his MH in an even worse spot, and your marriage with your wife weaker too.

Xmas is the least of your worries - given this bigger picture, B and ex need an intervention at this point before raising becomes nuclear

Well, I do hope you all have a merry Christmas, but pethaps there are things to work on for rhe next one.
Thankfully, a year away!

Many thanks for all replies, critical ones hard to take but all valid. And yes I am thinking of counselling. All my life I have never been able to articulate in any emotional discussion, I am frightened of saying the wrong thing, can never achieve anything and just get tongue tied.
In my defence wrt ex putting up with B, I stay very close to the former home since we separated and often had him with me. Help was offered more than once to help B live independently but it was ex who turned it down. Now B feels he needs to stay to help ex. They are co-dependent.

OldFrill :No, I'm not skilled in confrontation, but B is rarely in our house, and I always give my wife notice before asking him.
Bluebell and MissAdventure: With his illness there is always a risk of relapse. He does seem paranoid sometimes. Am I afraid of B? No. Theoretically he could be a danger but after 20 years I would see it coming. I think there will be a crisis of some sort between B and his mother eventually.
Shelflife: Yes, we do meet away at the pub usually, I give notice to my wife if he comes home.
Baggs: I do understand, I am trying to do what she wants, I only asked if B could come over briefly for Christmas, he's now said he doesn't want to anyway. The anxious discussions we have seem triggered when I said that C could stay over Christmas.
Eazybe: Ex and B seem bound up with each other now. Help was offered but turned down.
Pascal 30, thanks, it will prob work out something like that. Btw I'm not being unfair to B, as I said to MissAdventure
NotSpag: Thanks for supportive input re: keys, agreed

AuntieE "Can you not be honest with your healthy children and admit that your wife cannot conquer her fear of mental illness, and therefore does not want any of "you children" having a key?" Well put, thank you.
Gummie: In their 40s.

How old are your children?

Easybee
‘I have no idea what S.A. history is, but being described as 'very sensitive' speaks volumes. ‘

OP’s wife is a victim of sexual abuse (S.A.)
If she woken up screaming recently, I do not think it is because she is sensitive or nervous, most likely someone or something is triggering her SA memories. She needs counselling.

I can only speak for myself, but I find it refreshing when men are brave enough to join in discussions or post on Gransnet.

You say your wife does not like your children, is afraid of the one with mental illness.

Well, a lot of people are scared of mental illness, or of things like alcoholism and a lot of women profess to love a man, but make no effort to like or even be polite to his children. In fairness to the rest of my sex, I ought here to say, that many men seem happy to have the same attitude to a second wife and her children.

For me, loving my husband meant, I accepted his son, and am I glad I did? You bet, I gained a son, as well as a husband.

But that does not help you.

If your home is big enough, suggest to your wife that when the son with the mental problems comes, she sits in some other room, preferably after greeting him politely, but if she cannot bring herself to do so, sending her regards via you, or even better that she goes out for the day.

It is surely only natural that those of your children who actually stay in the house have a key they may use while visiting. I do not think they would find it unreasonable to be handed a spare key (or yours) and asked to be sure they do not take it away with them when they leave, as it is the only spare key you have, or your key, as the case may be.

Can you not be honest with your healthy children and admit that your wife cannot conquer her fear of mental illness, and therefore does not want any of "you children" having a key?

Try to infer that her children don't have keys either. If they do, it is grossly unfair, and such unfairness, if it exists, should be stopped. The best way is to have keys made that cannot be copied by anyone who does not have written authorisation signed by both you wife and you. A locksmith can advise about this.

If your son can hold a job successfully despite his lack of social skills, what is the reason he lives with the ex?

You have left it rather late to start worrying about seeing your children at Christmas. Much damage will have been done by your current wife's intransigent attitude towards them, based on bad behaviour twenty years ago. I have no idea what S.A. history is, but being described as 'very sensitive' speaks volumes. Tell your wife you will be entertaining your children for the afternoon to exchange presents and if she feels unsafe she can go elsewhere for a few hours.
Really, your children are your responsibility but it seems as though their mother, your first wife, has born the burden of their upbringing. You should be ashamed.

I know a situation similar to yours. First wife was difficult and was sectioned for a time. Husband remarried and second wife refused to have anything to do with his three children, who were sent to boarding school and spent most of their holidays with grandparents and relatives. Subsequently, two of the adult children received short prison sentences; the third was attempting to support their mother and tied to her side. The people who supported the two during their convictions and afterwards were an ex-wife, an ex-mother in law, their two step-siblings and (financially) their father, because all saw the damage the second wife had created.

Agree totally Pascal blimey 20 years ago ! I thought he was rampaging through the countryside with a cross bow now
Non problem, make a decision, stick with it have a happy time

I find your latest post very disturbing MrFide.. if the psychotic episode was 20 years ago and he has held down a job since it is quite possible that it was a one off.. people with MH issues do get better as well.. I think you are being very unfair to him.. rudeness can be coped with and it is much better if he is shown trust and love then he is unlikely to be provoked... This sounds like an excuse not to host your children

Agree with BlueBelle.

Its neither here nor there if your wife's children think yours (or one of them, at lesst) is a "dick".

That isn't reason to not allow your children to visit, stay, and neither is the fact that 20 years ago, your sons mental health was poor, and he fought with a sibling.

I think everyone would be sitting at empty tables if they held their children's past misdemeanors against them.

Sadly. another of those threads where someone is looking for a solution to a difficult situation that will resolve everything without them having to make any difficult decisions.

It isn't possible. Difficult decisions have to be made and followed through. There is no alternative outcome.

Grit your teeth, make a decision follow it through and accept that whatever the solution is someone will be upset.

So now the last post has popped up and negated mine 😫start again
No aggression for 20 years holds down a job in the NHS why on earth shouldn’t he come over Your wife is not going to be on her own with him, you ll be there, sounds absolutely fine to me
Why shouldn’t C come over to stay a few days all sounds like a huge over reaction on your wife’s part a storm in a teacup

I m with you here Make a firm decision
C is coming for say two days Christmas Day and Boxing Day and B is invited over for a meal Christmas Eve to exchange presents
There you go all done

I read it in the same way as*MissAdventure*.

I have close family who have been sexually abused and would always want to protect them - but they have had a lot of counselling which has definitely helped them deal with difficult situations subsequently.
Maybe your wife would benefit from counselling too?

Those who say "talk to your wife before you come here have maybe missed this:
I guess I am posting here because I want to know if I am being fair with my wife and also if anyone can direct me to help with talking this out rationally. I am really suffering with the anxiety of repetitive discussions with my wife that just go round in circles.

If you want help with talking things out in a safe space- I think you could maybe look at couples counselling so you both have a chance to be honest but in a supportive environment.
I do think it's too late for this year though.

As regards keys - we do not hand keys out to all the family.
If adult children are visiting they don't have a key given to them. We don't have loads of keys - they are welcome to mine if I'm going to be out all day but I'll want it back.

Look we are going round in circles here because MrFide hasn’t come back with any more information

We have no idea if Child B is really a problem, has mental health issues or been inside for first degree murder!!
We have no idea if Mrs MrFide is a very anxious person who would jump at her own shadow and faint if there’s a knock at the door

It’s pointless giving advise without knowing the situation

Thanks for your replies. Over 20 years ago when a teenager B attacked a sibling during an argument, a fist fight, unsustained, no injuries. He was also found carrying a weapon at the time. He was later sectioned. He also made a serious suicide attempt. He has a psychosis. No further aggression for over 20 years. He now has a job in the nhs but apart from that not much social life. I just would like him to be able to come over to exchange presents. Sometimes he has been rude to me and I have told him to stay away from the house. I can set boundaries.
I don't see why my daughter C shouldn't stay with us but hasn't stayed over Christmas before. The thing is every year we spend the whole of December agonising over this and get nowhere, my wife's main issue is that it takes me too long to firm up when my children will come, but in the end B and C just come over for an hour or we go out.
Things have changed this year. B just used to lack social skills and was self centred, one of wife's children said he was "a Dick" and she wants to keep them separate, now he's quieter but can be rude. C otoh is maturing and much better mannered.