Married nearly 35 years Help!

We can only go on what you have told us. He sounds like he has a number of narcissistic traits that you have bowed to over the years in order to keep the peace. You’ve heard of fight or flight? What you are doing is called freeze and fawn.

When it feels safer to be submissive and obedient than fight or flee, people may turn to the freeze and fawn stress response. Fawning causes someone to please and appease the needs of someone else, instead of prioritizing their own well-being. This response is common in abusive situations. For example, a wife with an emotionally abusive husband might find that being agreeable is safer than fighting back.

Signs that a fawn response has been activated include:

•Having a hard time saying “no”
•Being a people-pleaser
•Pretending to agree with someone
•Doing what you’re told no matter what
•Putting others’ needs before your own
•Not being able to set boundaries

Sound familar?

Of course he would consider the marriage to be strong. For 35 years he has had a younger trophy wife who treats him like a god to be looked up to.

And there you go, thinking that you have to change to fit in with him and now saying you have exaggerated your concerns.

Any man who dared tell me to go change my clothes would find a heavy wardrobe embedded in his skull. It is coercive control as any women’s aid agency will tell you

You started by saying when I look ahead it is with a feeling of dread. No woman should ever feel like this about a man’s behaviour.

There do not appear to be any money worries here. If it were me, I would extricate myself by finding a modest house or apartment where I could live in peace without a tedious golf bore controlling my life. I would live as happy, relaxed people do (as I do); slop around in leggings and an old sweater fit for the cat basket if I want to; leave the housework for days or weeks (as I often do) and no longer have to kowtow to a man-child’s bad temper or walk on eggshells around him.

It doesn’t matter how important he was in his working life. There is a man-baby President in the White House. We had our own man-baby Prime Minister in Boris Johnson. Both men are “conservatives”. Both had successful fathers who inflicted psychological damage on their sons. Both are narcissists who either have or still are enjoying inflicting harm on other people. See the pattern?

You need to get him out of the house for a while so you can do what you want when he’s not there. That means he needs a hobby or an interest. He could do something active like walking football, volunteer to drive people to hospital, take up golf, become a parish councillor ( hairman)etc. Something where people will look up to him and respect him and he feel useful. It give you a break

SporeRB

Sparklefizz has hit the nail on the head when she said your husband is a alpha male who worked in the city of London, used to bossing people around, now he only has you to boss around at home. He is not going to change.

If it were me, I encourage him to volunteer, perhaps as a treasurer for a charity or non profit organisation.

With 7 rooms in your house, there is plenty of rooms for you to ‘hide’ – choose one or two as your domain and spend a lot of time with your hobbies there away from your husband.

Keep having an independent life outside your home – meeting friends, exercise, join groups.

IMHO, a life as a divorcee at our age can be a very lonely life and if you were to go dating again, god knows what type of men you meet- probably much, much worse than your husband.

Totally agree with this. You could go from the frying pan into the fire. You have had a great life mostly financed by him. Just look to interests of your own during the day and then you will have something to talk about in the evenings. No relationship is perfect and yours is pretty much ok if not exactly how you’d like it to be.

Allira

I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

And the daughter's take on it.

Yes that would be interesting wouldn't it? And I'm sure DH would say I'm not always the easiest to live with my daughters are 32 and one just turned 28. The eldest one said had moulded me into the wife he wanted (she's like her dad!) the younger one is like me, but TBH things were fine when they home and know of them apart from the youngest whose still at home caused any great troubles for us and homelife was pretty good on the whole - I would admit that I miss them a lot and they 'supported' me a bit where DH was concerned.

What a thoughtful post OP, maybe, the grass just isn’t greener in the other side.

Maybe you and your husband are both just a bit bored and grating on each other.

Get some outside interests, both of you, maybe one together then some separate ones.

I do wish you luck and I cannot feeling just a teeny bit envious of your lovely life! I’d have loved being a SAHM, however I certainly would have worked once they started school, your relationship seems a little more like parent/child and less like equal partners, this would not have suited me at all

Thanks everyone for their comments. Gosh, there’s rather a lot of them aren’t there and not had time to read them all in detail but I thank you for taking the time to reply, I’ll just pick out a few if I may but….

Firstly, I’ve not used the words controlling or coercive control. I made a point of not writing that in my OP as I don’t think it’s true I did say when I looked it into it and talked to other women who might have used those words to describe their marriages I did think to my DH has some of the same traits as @silverbrooks said there are a lot of men like my husband in the City (and on wall Street and in Frankfurt!) I know I’ve met them! And, yes, he is a bit arrogant as some else said. I think of him as being very traditional, conservative and old fashioned rathe than anything else and I know he’d be shocked if he knew I’d posted this as he considered the marriage to be very strong. Of course, I could divorce him! I have considered the D word at various times over the years but I guess, yes, the lifestyle was and probably is a big attraction but also the children and the grandchildren and the fact things a generally OK - I agree with @sparklefizz comment in regard to divorce - have thought the same.

Secondly, yes, I agree I’ve had a very comfortable lifestyle and owe it all to my husband and that’s why I respect him. I am by nature quite a placid person but that doesn’t mean we’ve not had rows over the years (some pretty big ones), of course we have, but life is easier if we don’t disagree, I hated it when the children were young and they were upset. Do I need to stand up for myself more? Of course I do but its hard when you haven’t done it that often as @Eazybee said.
Frankly, I don't think you have a bad life now, and if 'not looking a mess' and not disagreeing with your husband's opinion is the price you pay, there are worse things.

True!

@Notspaghetti wrote a nice post and I do agree with a lot of @M0nica has said too, it is about adjustments which are long time coming in DH’s case as he’s been retired a while but he’s definitely better than he was when he first retired (Covid was an absolute nightmare!!) but @silverbrooks has hit the nail on the head though I wouldn't have put it like this myself,
^essentially about the adjustments all couples have to make
It could be partly but I think it’s more than that.
Her job hasn’t changed. The eldest is 24 and should be capable of shifting for himself. OP says she had domestic help with the children and the home anyway. She’s been floating around enjoying all the trappings of a wealthy lifestyle for 35 years, playing the trophy wife and mother.
Only now is she admitting that hedonism comes at a price. That price is it be shackled to what was once an entitled public schoolboy, who grew up to be an entitled City moneymaker who has now turned into an old man who can no longer play top dog in EC2. Believe me, I worked in the City for decades and know the type. They are ten-a-penny bullies and bores.
So what if a man finds retirement hard? That is not an excuse to throw his weight around at home.^

Its that last bit I’m struggling with!

And yes it probably does mean me changing because he certainly won't. It has been helpful this so I think you all. I probably was a bit vague when I wrote this this morning but I can see more clearly now what the issues are also that perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill.

He "makes" you change your clothes - just say No! Tell him to jog on!

Join U3A, a walking group, a chess group, the over 60s Ladies Nudist Leapfrog Team - just anything to have a life!

Have you any money of your own?

You could always do some voluntary work so you can get some time away from hubby.
I don't know what you want really. You say you won't divorce him so it's a case of shut up and put up with him . He's given you 35 very good years , not many women get that .
You are only 60 , you've got years ahead to make a new life for yourself but I guess it's the lifestyle keeping you there . No offence but I don't think you know how lucky you are .

This thread reads just like the threads from mothers who have made themselves doormats for their children and wonder why those children just assume they will fall into line with every thing they say or want.

Most people will become domestic tyrants, without even intending to, if there partner makes a doormat of themselves.

The question is how to extricate yourself. The answer, is for the dormant partner to start gently doing their own thing and ignoring any instructions coming down from on high.

This sounds uncannily like my wife’s situation she divorced her husband 6 yrs ago yrs
She has worked her whole married life but her job ended, her 4 children had all left home, she had always run her own life and it had all gone, she wanted to do things with her husband, he wanted to carry on as if nothing had changed. They gradually grew apart and she left.

It’s common, your lives have changed and as a couple you havn’t adapted together, we are healthier longer, at 60 there are many years left, leaving is uncertainty an adventure if you are positive, staying is safe and if you want can still be an adventure but you have to assert yourself.
So that’s your choices, assert yourself and stay or assert yourself and leave..

I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

And the daughter's take on it.

Who really knows what the story is?

Maybe she’s a natural doormat or maybe she just let a manipulative bully grind her down from the very start, attracted by his success and wealth. She won’t have been the first woman dazzled by materialism and lovebombing who then just settles for the abuse or feels trapped once she has a clutch of children.

He’s quite a lot older than her. She was 25 when they married and he was already 38. That’s a big age gap and there will be a reason for that.

Telling someone what they can wear is coercive control:

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/coercive-control/

Making someone feel as though they are walking on eggshells is also coercive control. It amounts to one person trying to humilate, degrade or dehumanise another person by making them frightened to speak.

Yes, if a couple say they've never had an argument, one is usually a doormat.

Although I remember someone I worked with years ago when we were both newly weds. She said she'd shouted and gone on at her husband about an annoying habit he had and he said nothing, then, when she'd finally finished, he said "I think you've just had our first argument".

Allira

^Let me -- Oh No No No.^

But that is the OP's interpretation of it, that is not what her DH said.
We only know one side of the story.
Char65 has allowed herself to become dependent, fairly unusual these days.

Coercive control is different. It seems as if both she and her DH were happy with how their marriage worked for years until he retired.

I know of someone who is being controlled and, whatever she tries to earn, he takes from her to put into the 'pot'- but only he has access to that money and allows her so much and questions every penny she spends. She wants to leave him but he's clever and manipulative and she doesn't have the strength or the financial reserves.

Char65 and her husband should either have a conversation about the way forward for them both or try out her independence within the marriage first then decide.

I disagree.

OP said "he let me get on with my life -- as long as I didn't argue"

I don't believe OP is under coercive control, nor did I say that, however I'd not want to feel I wasn't in control of my time and what I could say aloud. Doesn't seem like living a pleasant life, to me.

Well, that's partly her own fault for being a doormat for the sake of the comfortable life she enjoyed.

Anyway, no need to be at loggerheads for days. Just smile sweetly and do your own thing.
If he did become nasty then, that is the time to make serious plans.

How does a woman have a conversation when she says: … if I stand up to him and argue we can be at loggerheads for days so I tend to just do what he wants and back down and say sorry even if its not my fault – I’ve always been like that.

This is not a new thing since he retired. This is the way it has been for 35 years.

Let me -- Oh No No No.

But that is the OP's interpretation of it, that is not what her DH said.
We only know one side of the story.
Char65 has allowed herself to become dependent, fairly unusual these days.

Coercive control is different. It seems as if both she and her DH were happy with how their marriage worked for years until he retired.

I know of someone who is being controlled and, whatever she tries to earn, he takes from her to put into the 'pot'- but only he has access to that money and allows her so much and questions every penny she spends. She wants to leave him but he's clever and manipulative and she doesn't have the strength or the financial reserves.

Char65 and her husband should either have a conversation about the way forward for them both or try out her independence within the marriage first then decide.

essentially about the adjustments all couples have to make

It could be partly but I think it’s more than that.

Her job hasn’t changed. The eldest is 24 and should be capable of shifting for himself. OP says she had domestic help with the children and the home anyway. She’s been floating around enjoying all the trappings of a wealthy lifestyle for 35 years, playing the trophy wife and mother.

Only now is she admitting that hedonism comes at a price. That price is it be shackled to what was once an entitled public schoolboy, who grew up to be an entitled City moneymaker who has now turned into an old man who can no longer play top dog in EC2. Believe me, I worked in the City for decades and know the type. They are ten-a-penny bullies and bores.

So what if a man finds retirement hard? That is not an excuse to throw his weight around at home.

OP is going to be shackled to this dictator for the rest of her life unless she grows a spine and tells him where to get off. Instead she’s still hero-worshipping him -which is, of course, exactly what he wants.

Interesting that he likes or at least collects the books of Ian Fleming. James Bond was a dark triad narcissist, Machiavellian and psychopath who just happened to work for the good guys.

When a woman finally wakes up and says when I look ahead it is with a feeling of dread and cries help she needs to act to change her life, else this will be the pattern of it for another 25 years or more, or until one or other of them dies.

BlueBelle

Oh Norah how can you say she seems to have no life the man has given her everything not only a generous allowance but a 7 bedroomed house she had outings money for food drink clothes dinners with friends, holidays, lived in two different countries and has never had to work outside the home and for all this she has to pay a price and the price is the man that has retired is still the same alpha male, controlling businessman that she married and has happily lived off for 35 years
If she had said no I don’t want your money 35 years ago and gone out to work for herself I d be very sympathetic but she hasn’t she’s enjoyed a lifestyle most of us have never even dreamed of and she’s not happy that the man who gave it to her is still the same controlling businessman that she married
🤷🏼‍♀️
I think the idea that you volunteer with homeless or in a refuge and see what poverty and coercive control is really like with women who are beaten into submission is an excellent idea

he let me get on with my own life to a large extent as long as I ran the house and looked after the kids and looked nice myself---- by and large DH didn’t complaint as long as the house was peaceful, tidy and I didn’t argue with him and was around when needed.

Let me -- Oh No No No.

I said OP seems to have no life because it sounds as if that is true, to me. I'd not be happy, I'd separate from such a domineering man.

I have been where you are. I had a comfortable life with a coercively controlling husband whom I left after 40 years because at the end he decided to become violent as well and that I would not put up with. ( I didn’t realise how bad it was until I actually left)

In my case I did always work (except for when the children were small) and he never actually ever stopped me having money but I also had my own salary. I was glad I was financially independent it helped me leave.

I remember driving back from work one day and deciding I couldn’t live another 20+ years like this and filed for divorce.

He made that divorce as difficult as possible but before that I’d already decided I didn’t love him and we had certainly stopped having sex. I’m not sure how you can be intimate with someone you don’t even like anymore.

If you say you love him stay and put up with another 35 years (what has changed except he has retired) or decide you finally won’t put up with it and leave but quite frankly if you’ve never worked how the heck will you manage?

I think it was also about what a great life she had before when her DH was out at work- she wrote two detailed paragraphs about it, or am I missing the point here?

Does she now feel somehow deprived because she can't go out for lunch while she had everyone running around after her, caring for her kids and doing all that boring domestic house stuff?

Have her hair and beauty appointments stopped, the tennis and the theatre tickets too? I'm just not getting why she has to mention all this and then say her husband is trying to control her? Maybe he's retired and realised she spent all his money?

This post is essentially about the adjustments all couples have to make when they retire and are both at home together almost all the time.

In my case, there was an easy adjustment. A year after DH retired, during which, at times, I came close to doing him in, there was an oil crisis. He was offered self-employed work, and hasn't stopped since, OK, at 81, it is only occasional home based consultancy. But until COVID, he was travelling around Europe to meetings, so the adjustment has been gradual and I have learned to work at something with someone else in the room.

That's a lovely, empathetic and helpful response NotSpaghetti.

RosieandherMaw, Silverbrooks and others, I think Char knows how fortunate she's been and accepts that she is comfortable and enjoys life but suddenly it seems that her JOB has changed without negotiation or warning.

She was once the mistress of her home and now she all at once has someone else involved who is trying to be her boss!

I think having the (non working) son arround all day at home is an added complication.

I do feel for you char as adaptation is not always easy... But it won't be easy for either of you.
My lovely next door neighbour told me that he found giving up his headmastership on retirement very hard. He had been SO looking forward to it as well! Now he knew he was under his wife's feet and was often more grumpy about nothing. He said he felt his opinion and ideas were no longer relevant.
At school he said he was asked "what to do" or "what he thought about" maybe 200 times a day. At home it felt like being a toddler - "would you like roast chicken or ham salad for lunch?"

I think you might be able to engage in a more meaningful conversation with him if you can show him you empathise with his situation too...
Abd then you can together maybe work on gently moving your young son on into something that keeps him busy.

Thinking of you.

I think you need to harden up to him, don’t be a door mat. If he says he doesn’t like what you are wearing, don’t go and change just to keep the peace instead say ok, but I am comfortable with how I look and walk away. Find outside interests and don’t be at his beck and call,