Paternity leave to be financed

Bazza

No, just the thought of my DH helping with a new baby was beyond ridiculous, perhaps I didn’t make that clear. I’m quite envious of dads that were or are hands on. And I do think PT is a good thing.

I’m sorry, not time to read every reply. But honestly, your set up sounds positively Victorian. I’m 61. My dad was also a very tradition nap man. But he changed nappies when he was there 🤷‍♀️

Paperbackwriter

Maybe it's because being around for your own family shouldn't be called 'helping'. It's doing what they should be doing - sharing the load.

Spot on always

Bazza

I don’t know if this the right site, I couldn’t find one that really suited, but I just wondered what other grans feel about this. Our first daughter was born in 1973 and the thought of my DH taking two weeks off work to “help” are beyond ridiculous. I’m very well aware that things are very different these days with fathers taking a far bigger role in the physical needs of babies, but smaller companies will really suffer. Did you get any help with a new born?

Lots of us are lucky to have hands on husbands, if my husband hadn't been naturally I would soon have trained him. It is so very important that both parents are involved with the children and hands on. We are so behind the Scandinavian countries in this way, who have far longer and better entitlements. Of course the new dad should have time off to bond with his child and to help his wife.

My husband too was one of nine and the youngest. He never ever changed a nappy, he left one son on the toilet till I came home!!! Refused to wipe his bottom, never did bath times or well anything really. Went to work the day I came home, being self employed back in the day probably didnt help and to be honest I managed better without him. Even if he'd had paid time off, he would still have been useless. Children in his eyes were "women's work" and still are. The youngsters have it so very different nowadays.

My three were all born three weeks before due date. DH had booked a week’s holiday for approximately a week after due date. His job didn’t allow him to to take holidays at the last minute, so I was on my own with them when they first came home.

AuntieE

Like it or not, the world has changed since we were young mothers!

Today's young women and men are more inclined to share both household chores and the upbringing of their children along the lines of both being able to do most things, rather than along a female/male division of labour.

Admittedly, I have yet to see any male, except a bat, breast-feeding, but anyone can change a nappy, surely?

Our generation of women could at the age of nine or ten, remember?

The first nappy I ever changed was my own daughter's. She was also the first baby I had ever held.

We were very fortunate that my husband's company allowed him to 'work from home' for a week for all 3 of our children. He was a tremendous help to me. This was 43 years ago. So quite unusual then. I think it's important for both parents to support each other for a week or two.

No help. 71 and 74 had a two and a half year old then twins. Dh due to his job was away from home a lot of the time or worked irregular hours. No family. I managed, how, I do not know considering all the woes mothers seem to have these days.

Maybe it's because being around for your own family shouldn't be called 'helping'. It's doing what they should be doing - sharing the load.

Paid paternity leave has been around for years, my sisters husband had it when their 1st daughter was born and she's in her 20s now.

I didn't even have a man that would want to to do that, he was useless as a father.
My son and sil both took paternity leave thiu, and thankfully they're both very hands on dads, in fact my son does more than his wife... I raised him to be equal with his partners in all things.

No mine was of the opinion that it’s not his job!!! This was as recent as 20 years ago. In fact his brother who lived in Brussels at the time flew over to help me for a couple of weeks from the day I left the hospital. He was a godsend.

Although the legislation improves availability of paternity leave, and removes the previous qualifying period of employment, this is unpaid. Which is a real problem for many families.

My nephew could not afford to take his full paternity leave for either of his children. Like very many workers in the UK, he has no access to paid paternity leave. He has statutory minimum annual leave, and compulsory days over Christmas when the business is closed are deducted from this. (He is a great and very hands-on dad though.)

People in secure, well-paid work often don’t realise how many people in the UK workforce just don’t enjoy the same kind of benefits that they take for granted. It’s the same with statutory maternity pay. This is paid at 90% of normal salary for six weeks, then drops to £196 per week. Many women don’t get this topped up, can’t afford to take the reduction in pay and have to go back to work much sooner than the 39 weeks allowed. UK Maternity arrangements are still among the least generous in Europe.

Like it or not, the world has changed since we were young mothers!

Today's young women and men are more inclined to share both household chores and the upbringing of their children along the lines of both being able to do most things, rather than along a female/male division of labour.

Admittedly, I have yet to see any male, except a bat, breast-feeding, but anyone can change a nappy, surely?

Our generation of women could at the age of nine or ten, remember?

My husband had 3 days paternity leave. My mother in law came to stay for a couple of days because my husband was going for interviews for a new job. My daughter has reently had a baby bu c-section. Her husband was able to stay at the hospital overnight and has 9 weeks paternity leave, which does include some holiday leave.

Several of us have spoken about how pleased we were to have the support of our mothers in those early days. I agree absolutely.
I was able to offer my daughters this, including the one living abroad, because I was in my sixties, and retired, by the time my grandchildren started to arrive.
However, if they had started their families when they were younger, I could not have been any help, with a job, and caring responsibilities for an elderly mother.
Thank goodness for hands on fathers.

Galaxy

Slightly off topic, but for rather boring reasons I was given the statistics of public sector workers in my area who had done the shared maternity leave thing, where male and female can split the allocated leave, so mum does say 6 months and dad 3 months or whatever. This was about 5 years ago but across the whole county only one couple had chosen to share the leave. I thought that was interesting in terms of sharing the role of parenting.

I think a lot of that is probably that the mother needs time to heal (physically and hormonally) before she can be at the stage where the father enters the triangle. In some cases that might be a relatively short space of time, but in others, eg if she has had a c section and/or PND (or anything else that takes recovery time) it can mean that a simple division of the time wouldn't be straightforward.

Also, if the leave has to be for one or other parent, as opposed to both at once, the chances are still high that financially it makes sense for the man's salary to keep coming in. Babies are expensive, so I would imagine that not as many couples could afford to have the man at home as the woman.

Doodledog

I had two c sections. I was quite ill after the first and when the second came along I also had a toddler to look after. I don’t know how I would have coped if my husband hadn’t been there. I fully support paid paternity leave.

I was the same Doodledog
I was very ill after my first caesarean in 1969.Trouble was the baby was late, and my DH had arranged a holiday form work for two weeks after my due date.As it turned out I was in hospital with our DS1 all those two weeks.We came home the day before he was due back to work.I could really been grateful for those two weeks with him at home as family help was minimal.My mother had a full time job and MIL just came when she felt like it.She seemed to think she could just cuddle the baby then go home.
With the second baby it was a different scenario.DH joined the merchant navy when I was three months pregnant, and promised me he would be home for the birth.How trusting was I.The due date came and went again, no sign of him, despite me begging for him to come home.He would write back and say impossible.I had to have another caesarean and was in hospital for two weeks again, this was 1972.MIL was more helpful this time as she looked after DS1 while I was in hospital but once I got home that was it, she quickly made an exit with some excuse.I rang my own mother in floods of tears, she took one day off work to stay overnight, then away she went.MIL appeared and to be fair, took my toddler DS1 out every day ,bringing him back at his bed time.
DH arrived home two months later and all he did was talk about the ship and the places he had been.I was not interested and ignored him.
It turned out later that he had been ''traumatised'' by DS1's birth and that was his reason for wanting to be as far away as possible!
Yes obviously I have survived but if this was now with paid paternity leave thing might have been different.

GrannyIvy

I am not saying I struggled so want others too at all but just saying the men worked and the women stayed at home to care for the children back then. I took seven years off work and loved every minute. It is different today because many women have careers and cannot take time away or afford too. It is just a very different world now

It is indeed a different world, and much more difficult in many ways, but still you some of you say you don’t understand or support PL?

Well I guess you may well have been kept in hospital for a few weeks and nurses popped babies together in the nursery at night, so some of you ladies would have benefitted from a rest, not have to deal with a new baby the day after you gave birth and all the housework, cooking etc etc

I was discharged within 20 hours with first two babies, but with the second two I had pre-eclampsia and with final one gestational diabetes and then picked up a hospital infection. My parents worked and were not at all helpful. Thank goodness my DH was around. Also fathers deserve time to “bond” with their babies too.

Slightly off topic, but for rather boring reasons I was given the statistics of public sector workers in my area who had done the shared maternity leave thing, where male and female can split the allocated leave, so mum does say 6 months and dad 3 months or whatever. This was about 5 years ago but across the whole county only one couple had chosen to share the leave. I thought that was interesting in terms of sharing the role of parenting.

My husband used a week's holiday from work when each of our boys were born. Where is the money going to come from to cover this new proposal?

No, just the thought of my DH helping with a new baby was beyond ridiculous, perhaps I didn’t make that clear. I’m quite envious of dads that were or are hands on. And I do think PT is a good thing.

Thanks for replying.

I see what you mean about the help, but these days I think most men are more than capable of making themselves useful. I may have misread your OP, as I thought you were saying that the idea of paid PL was beyond ridiculous, but if not, that's my mistake and I apologise.

Small businesses have had to cover a couple of weeks PL for a while now - the new scheme won't alter that, but will make more people eligible. I'm not sure how many new dads will be in jobs they have recently started though - I can't see it making a huge difference to profits.

Doodledog, I put help in quotation marks just because my DH would have been no help whatsoever coming from a home where the only thing a son was required to do to help was bring in the coal or perhaps go shopping with a list. Not so unusual in those days, and he would have been more of a hindrance than a help.

I think it will be tough for small businesses to pay new fathers for paid leave, but I’m not saying it’s wrong. It’s a good thing that it’s in place, I never said that it wasn’t.

Mine was on a Warship when our son was born. In those day 1988... All I had to communicate with him was a letter... Our son was 3 months old when my DH met him for the first time.
When our DD was born few years later just weeks before she was due, his appointer got in contact to give him the heads up he was one of 2 Officers who might have to go to the Falklands Island ASAP , due to an Medical emergency.
Fortunately for me, (not him) my DH had a ongoing eye problem so needed specialist care, in the UK. The service give him a 2 weeks paternity leave this time, then he got sent 100 miles away, however he did get home at weekends.
TBH I could have done with a hand.

OP, why have you put 'help' in quotation marks, and why do you think fathers helping is 'beyond ridiculous'? I really don't understand that at all.

A new mum is likely to need help, not just want it. Not all of us have our own mums nearby or willing to help if they are, and those first weeks are when babies bond with their parents, learn their smell, voices etc. Obviously if it isn't possible for dad to be around then that's just the way it is, but if it can happen, even for a couple of weeks, then why not? As has been said, this change is just to allow men who are new in post to have the same rights as those who've been with their employer for longer. I'm not sure how that means that 'small businesses will struggle'.