Should the catholic church be asking schoolchildren to sign this petition?

No good using logic to understand the illogical, gillybob!

My main gripe with religion is that it teaches people about reward and punishment in an imaginary afterlife, which can compromise efforts to make a better life and a better world for us all in this life. When you think about it, what greater tool for control of a population could there be?

Hi Greatnan I was brought up by a religious (although not obsessive) family and as I got older I have questioned this belief in something or someone who can hand out good and evil like party bags. My argument is such that if God (or whoever) is good why does he choose to hand out poverty, illness and tragedy to some and riches, good health and happiness to others?

gillybob - I also hate most organised religions (still unsure about Quakerism, as they seem pretty inclusive - I just think they are wrong to believe in any supernatural being) - but I think we have to make it clear that we are not hostile to any individual believer - just the ones who try impose their own beliefs on us via the law.

Absolutely not. How can a child of 11 be expected to even understand what they are being asked ?

I hate all religion I really do. I am convinced it is the route of all evil.

Ha ha - well, at the very least they're a load of wa-wa- er..... wallies

Well, men who purport to be celibate, Joan!

My answer to the original question is - of course it is inappropriate. Children could feel afraid to refuse to sign, in case they are taken to task. And what use is such a petition, if many of the people signing it are children? Utterly ridiculous.

I'm sick of churches ignoring modern science. Medical science teaches us that a person's sexuality is inborn not chosen, so their discrimination against gays is as illogical as it would be to discriminate against me for being a short dark-haired woman. I was born with the genes that made me this way, just as gays are born the way they are.

Religion. Catholicism. Religious celibate men in long frocks. Grrrrr to the lot of them.

Vampire Queen - I don't think I have undersrtood your point. A group of teachers was shown a video which could be used in sex education. Were they shocked, upset, surprised?

understand that a pupil at one RC school has made a formal complaint to the local education department about how the letter was presented by the Head because the pupil felt it was discriminatory. Do not know details but will scan papers to see if it gets anywhere! I would have thought that the Religious Studies lessons in a RC school would have made the church doctrine clear so not sure why additional letter needed!

Forgot to add on above post.....we indoctrinate our children not only by what we teach but by what we omit to teach.

I once sat with a group of teachers to watch a sex ed dvd brought in by the school nurse. We had to watch it because we had been told that it showed a condom machine and we had to decide if it was appropriate as RC children are not taught about contraception. The machine was only in the background for about 10 seconds so we agreed the dvd could be shown.

Pathetic...yes....we thought so too.

I had to go to bed in mid debate last night -we are an hour ahead of you!
It appears the letter from the archbishops was read out to the whole school, so even if the under-16's were not asked to sign, they were still subjected to it.
I did not intend to start a discussion on the desirabiity of giving homosexual couples exact parity with others, (we have already had a thread on that subject), just to ask what people thought about the letter being read out to children. However, threads wander where they will and we would not have it any other way!

I bet they are indoctrinated under the age of sixteen though.

Greatnan, you also stated that they were asking pupils, some as young as 11, to sign the petition, but as littlemo pointed out, the petition gives a clear stipulation that no child under the age of 16 may sign.

I certainly did not accuse you of being homophobic but I am willing to agree to differ.
I have seen several gay people discussing their feelings of exclusion so I don't know how it can be concluded that this 'issue' is being raised by other groups on their behalf.
My original post asked if it was appropriate for young children to be asked to sign a petition, presumably without the consent of their parents. Nothing you have said has convinced me that it was the right thing to do.

Greatrnan, I think we'll have to agree to differ. No matter what I say I seem to end up as homophobic, which I am not, even covertly. Not everyone who argues against gay marriage is homophobic! It seems to me to be an easy way of trying to score points and cloud the issue I was trying to discuss. I agree with you Anagram.

And yes, I agree that it is up to the people concerned to decided if it is an important issue - which is the point I made in the first place. But it seems to be other groups of people who are arguing on their behalf - whether they want it or not.

That's hardly a fair comparison.

Surely it is up to the people concerned to decide if it is an important issue - it may not be important to some but I don't think the law should have to wait until a certain number of people want it changed.
I expect people said the same kind of thing about abolishing slavery, because some slaves seemed to be happy.

Definitely agree with Greatnan with both of the last two posts. Many people do not want to marry, should we ban marriage for all. We will look back at this discrimination in the future and think how strange that it took so long to give equal rights to all Do we all have equality or not. Obviously not!

I probably read it in the Mail online, Greatnan! .

If only one couple wanted equality, I would question the wisdom of changing the law just to accommodate them, yes. I'm not against it, per se, I just don't see why it's suddenly become such an important issue.

Apparently? Who says? Does it matter if only one couple wants equality?

Apparently most homosexuals couldn't care less about 'marriage' being made legal for them, they're quite happy with the way things are. Who exactly is it who's insisting that the law be changed?

I think you have missed my point, Littlemo. I was trying to point out that if you did not wish to engage in a gay marriage, nobody was going to force you. Homosexual couples are merely asking for the same freedom as heterosexual couples. Yes, they can have a civil partnership and we keep being told it is no different from marriage - then why not call it marriage?
I don't buy that 'equal but different' line either - it is used by many religions to justify treating women as second class members. Homosexuals don't want to be different - they want to be treated exactly the same as other people.
It seems to me that many of the 'reasons' for opposing gay marriage given by some people are covering covert homophobia.
It is particularly ironic for the catholic church to be laying down the law about any sexual matters, given its appalling record of abuse.

littlemo How do the actions of a clearly deranged francophile help us to think about gay marriage? And why do we need help in the first place?