An apology is called for

AlisonMA It is not for you or anyone else to decide where I should post. I deliberately chose to start a new conversation – to which I didn't expect to get many replies – because I felt that the conversation about god had been disrupted more than enough by the storm in a teacup that had erupted earlier.

From your comments on here, it is clear that you have not read or not understood my opening post. However, you can, of course, continue to comment on it but this time I shall not rise to the bait.

Not poking my nose in , you sound alright AlisonMA

You exagerate Greatnan but I have had enough of this J04 is right, I shouldn't care. I don't know you and I doubt I ever will. You have a choice, you can read what you like into my posts, that's up to you. If you choose to be negative go ahead. I've said before why people don't "have the courage to do it on the open forum" but you clearly don't empathise with those of more gentle sensibilities. Numerous (consisting of many numbers) is one of your exagerations, presumably for effect. Do what you like. I'm going shopping now and won't be returning to this thread.

I don't dislike you, Alison, as I don't know you. I dislike the fact that you have on many occasions referred to other members as being in a clique, being arrogant, bullies, rude, etc. etc. You refuse to say which posts have made you reach that conclusion and fall back on your usual defence that you are just generalising. You say you think there are cliques, but you have told us numerous times that you get lots of messages of support - does that not constitute a clique? I also get lots of support, but most of my supporters have the courage to do it on the open forum.
I refer you back to your post of 10.50.47 yesterday when you specifically mentioned that Christians did their good deeds in silence. I think most intelligent people would deduce from that and the following phrase that you were implying that atheists do not. In fact, that we boast about our abilities and deeds. If that is not what you meant, I am very glad to hear it.
I think I have made my feelings sufficiently clear on numerous occasions and I won't 'milk' it any further but I will continue to challenge you and any of your supporters who make insulting allegations about other members without quoting which post gives rise to your remarks.

I can almost smell those meadows from here Greatnan. slight

Really. After a while - you won't care!

Alison Gransnet is great for toughening you up.

I haven't gone yet. They haven't arrived yet. Roadworks!

Have I missed something? Everyone is being very cryptic.

IMO it would be simpler for all to understand if the comments made on this thread and Greatnan's were on the thread to which they refer instead of starting 2 new threads.

It seems to me that I am the one referred to and I think it is completely unfair to accuse me of going into 'victim mode'. This, IMO, is classic bullying, turn on the one you have hurt and make it their fault. Lots of people on GN talk about things that have hurt them and they are not accussed of this, why me? I think the answer lies in my post when I said that I thought Greatnan had taken a dislike to me and I didn't know why. Yes, I am naming names because I think it is clear you are both talking about me. Is it just a coincidence you have both done it at the same time? Of course I feel hurt when I am accused of things I have not done. Why is it OK for all the atheists and humanists to say what they think but when I say something in defence of some Christians I know I am vilified? I said nothing about any other religions and certainly didn't critiscise anyone else. Saying some Christians do good quietly is not a reflection on anyone else.

We have a choice whether to read a post negatively or positively, why have some chosen to read mine negatively?

Sun has just come out, jeni, and the meadows will smell wonderful after the rain.
Hurry back, jingle, your valuable contributions will be sorely missed.

It's often stated that one of the problems with forums, chat rooms and emails is that we only have the written word and can't see the person's expression. This makes it easy to misunderstand. I don't know about other Gransnetters, but I've spent over 60 years communicating in writing with people whose faces I couldn't see and who couldn't see mine! The medium has changed, not the process. It has more to do with the speed at which these communications can be fired off, I think. When you write a letter or even a memo (and much more so a report or an article) time to think and revise is built in. Pause before you click maybe?

greatnan are you telling me it actually rains where you are? I thought it was paradise!

JessM I agree with your post.

This is the first and only forum I've ever experienced, and feel that I am learning a new skill in how I communicate in this way, and how other's do, too.
There is much I do not wish to discuss on a open forum, and it would be short-sighted of me to expect other GN members to know this or any of my sensitivities. This I've had to learn. It is a different way of being with others, and one that I value. I am still finding my feed in this area, and am finding it takes time.

Overall, I find GN's a good and interesting community to be a part of.

to you all.

I'm taking a break from Gransnet.

The grandkids are coming for a couple of days and I won't get a look in on the 'puter.

Apart from that, all I can say is -

when how I agree with your post.

absent you don't have anything to apologise for in my opinion.

Greatnan keep up the good work.

Generally though, the diversity of Gransnet Posters is what makes Gransnet such an interesting online community to belong to.

Thank you - you are very kind!

Greatnan

And I can't 'get out of the house' - it is pouring down.

Jess, I am not sure why you address your post to me. I think I have borne the continued negative comments on virtually every post I have made for several months past with some good humour. (There I go, boasting again!) They do not upset me - compared to my very real sorrows they are just gnat bites, but I do get mildy annoyed when I challenge some insult (bullying, arrogant, rude, offensive, etc. etc.) and get told 'It was just a generalisation and did not refer to any specific member', This is clearly dishonest.
Alison did get as far as saying, when challenged about one insult 'If the cap fits...' which suggested to me, as near as dammit, that I was indeed the intended target.
In future, I will challenge all insults robustly and ask for details of the relevant post to be given. So far, nobody has been able to cite a post where I have breached forum etiquette.
I used to enjoy taking part in debates on religion, philosophy and politics, but it seems that when some memebrs find them difficult to follow they fall back on trivialising them, or to personal insults (but, of course, without the courage to actually confront the supposed offender).

I agree Jess. I also quite often write a post then navigate away without posting, just to get it off my chest.
I think it is sometimes hard to get the measure of what is meant, especially when discussing politics or religion, where we are strongly attached to the things we believe in. I also think that it is easy to post about things which are very precious and important to us, but may bore the pants of other people (I probably do this about education and all things French) and I guess some people are more tolerant of this than others.
I find looking at other forums makes me realise just how measured and gentle the majority of posts are on Gransnet. If people are genuinely offended and hurt then I really think forums are not for them; I have never found one which is comfortable reading for all of the people all of the time.
I have been re-reading "Can Any Mother Help Me", which records the writings of women in a home-made magazine which they circulated amongst the group over a period of about 50 years. It made me remember how much practical and emotional support women have given to each other in times of stress (men too, but more of a female thing I think) and I value what Gransnet has become since it started; it is sad when disagreement becomes the dominant voice as has happened on some threads this summer.
Thank you for saying it absent, though I too think you have little to apologise for.

That's dead right Jess. I was about to post much the same, but you said it better.

absent and greatnan lots of us have, at least once, been really angry or upset by something that has happened in the world of Gransnet. Something touches a nerve. And that highlights either a 'sore spot' in our emotional landscape or maybe it is some belief that we have (about shoulds or should not)
But it is a funny old world, GN.
::Because we do not know who we are dealing with and what problems, pain and personality traits they have in real life. Not to mention their beliefs or whether they have a sense of humour, or any disabilities or problems they have not revealed here.
::Because we do not have all the non verbal cues about the nuances of meaning, that can completely change our interpretation (Think of someone saying "you're looking cheerful today" it can have two opposite meanings depending on tone of voice)
::Because we cannot look someone in the eye and say, "I'm feeling upset after that last remark. Did you really mean to criticise me then or was it just an unfortunate choice of words?" and then judge the non-verbal aspects of the response.
We see people only "through a glass, darkly" on here.
I have enjoyed your more assertive self emerging on GN absent Don't take her away. You have been taking a few risks, and it was always going to be an interesting, more bumpy ride But better scenery.
My advice for anyone feeling upset by GN is to take a break for 24 hours and get out of the house.

Just been scanning through the relevant posts on the relevant thread, and I agree. You have nothing to apologise for, absent.

Apologies are certainly called for - but not from you, absent.